If the universe had intention to create humans it sure took a long time. — Jackson
Very true. But perhaps time to a human and time to the universe are very different. We know its rate objectively depends on distance, gravity, relativity etc and also “human time” is somewhat arbitrary : assigned to relatively quick cycles that we can observe. But for something that exists as long as the universe could - perhaps life and humanity arose in reasonable haste. Alas we most likely cannot appreciate that in its entirety I suppose considering we are only here for an average of 70-80 years or so. — Benj96
Though I subscribe to panpsychism, I do not think intelligence requires self consciousness. — Jackson
Well, is intelligence or consciousness more important than legs or arms? — Angelo Cannata
It seems to me that in the background of this discussion there is the idea that intelligence and consciousness are extremely important elements of the universe, so that we have some tendency to even interpret it entirely under this category, like a conscious universe or an intelligent universe. This is still the ancient human tendency and desire to conceive ourselves as the center of the universe. — Angelo Cannata
Agree totally. So often we seem unaware that we contrive the definitions and rules and what's important to us and we assume this has cosmic ramifications. — Tom Storm
It is because, by saying it, we put us as a reference point to understand the universe: by saying that the universe has intelligence, the reference point to understand what intelligence is is human intelligence, — Angelo Cannata
It is the same mechanism of imagining God with anthropomorphic attributes: the reference point is human, even if we think that God is infinitely superior to us. — Angelo Cannata
Category mistake.Would a universe without consciousness have any states-of-affairs? — bert1
Incoherent (re: relativity of simultaneity).Would there ever be a now, a present moment in such a universe, in which a state-of-affairs could exist?
Incoherent (re: relativity of simultaneity). — 180 Proof
Would a universe without consciousness have any states-of-affairs? Would there ever be a now, a present moment in such a universe, in which a state-of-affairs could exist? — bert1
we put us as a reference point to understand the universe: — Angelo Cannata
Can another kinda particle take the place of the humble electron — Agent Smith
positron — Benj96
I wonder why EMP doesn't fry our brains like they do electronics. — Agent Smith
considering we evolved from its very properties and mechanics - we may be perfectly equipped — Benj96
From a scientific point of view, — Angelo Cannata
The natural conclusion is that either universes cannot exist in any other way but one that leads to an observer, or the observer has always been there (enter theology and/or panpsychism), and that life is simply the most physical and particulate (individual) state to date through which said observer or observers exist. — Benj96
Let’s begin with a thought-experiment: Imagine that all life has vanished from the universe, but everything else is undisturbed. Matter is scattered about in space in the same way as it is now, there is sunlight, there are stars, planets and galaxies—but all of it is unseen. There is no human or animal eye to cast a glance at objects, hence nothing is discerned, recognized or even noticed. Objects in the unobserved universe have no shape, color or individual appearance, because shape and appearance are created by minds. Nor do they have features, because features correspond to categories of animal sensation. This is the way the early universe was before the emergence of life—and the way the present universe is outside the view of any observer.
Common sense leads us to assume that we see in Gestalts because the world itself is constituted of whole objects and scenes, but this is incorrect. The reason events of the world appear holistic to animals is that animals perceive them in Gestalts. The atoms of a teacup do not collude together to form a teacup: The object is a teacup because it is constituted that way from a perspective outside of itself.
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