1. God is not evil.
2. God did not create evility.
3. Humans have free will and they created evility with their moral displestitude.
4. The devil exists. — god must be atheist
Sez who, where?2. God did not create evility. — god must be atheist
Humans are free to choose God, any of the other gods, or Satan. They didn't create anything.3. Humans have free will and they created evility with their moral displestitude. — god must be atheist
According to Genesis, the serpent existed, back in Eden. It is reputed to have been an incarnation of Lucifer, who shows up much later in the bible, but the serpent of Eden is just a clever snake when God curses him to be the enemy of woman.The devil exists. — god must be atheist
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
But it's by no means a solid foundation.Many Christians believe the Devil was once a beautiful angel named Lucifer who defied God and fell from grace. This assumption that he is a fallen angel is often based on the book of Isaiah in the Bible, which says, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations.”
According to one version of the myth and several versions in later religious tradition. In fact, the probability is that Satan has many precedents in Middle Eastern and European folklore. He can - with little stretch of the imagination - be identified with a number of pre-existing malevolent entities.2. The devil (Satan) is god-made. Humans can't create angels. Satan is a transformed angel. — god must be atheist
That's a direct contradiction - without any scriptural foundation afaik - of the previous statement. He wouldn't have been "transformed" - Christians prefer 'fallen' - unless he made a very bad decision - i.e. to stand against God in an armed uprising. You don't get will much freer than that!3. Angels are not humans; they have no free will. — god must be atheist
Indirectly, if his ex-creature made it. Directly, only if he put it into the world on purpose. There is nothing the big book to indicate which.QED evil (*some evil) has been created by god directily. — god must be atheist
Usually they scream 'free will' at you... — Tom Storm
Evility was not "created" rather something greater than good or evil "freedom" or "choice"... — Outlander
Mainstream? That'll be the folk with "I break for angels" bumper stickers.In mainstream Christian theology the "devil" is one of at least (assuming they are numbered incrementally) 665 other beings — Outlander
...only if he put it into the world on purpose... — Vera Mont
How does free will explain childhood cancer? Tsetse fly? Covid? — Banno
The argument:
1. Assuming that 3 is right, it does not explain the existence of the devil.
2. The devil (Satan) is god-made. Humans can't create angels. Satan is a transformed angel.
3. Angels are not humans; they have no free will.
4. The devil has never had free will.
5. Therefore the devil's existence can only be explained by its creation by god. (Via a transfromation of it from regular angel status.)
QED evil (some evil) has been created by god directily. — god must be atheist
From the King James Bible (OT):God is not evil. — god must be atheist
Also, read the Book of Job. The "free will" theidiocy amounts to nothing more than vacuous and vicious blame-shifting doubletalk. :pray: :naughty:I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. — Isaiah 45:7
But back to theist-compatible science, simple. Man was given instruction to produce children in a sacred covenant of marriage and to live simply without extravagance. We chose (someone and enough did somewhere up the line) to overproduce, to try to become gods of this planet with machines and technology that produce all kinds of lethal and harmful things to us ie. hazardous byproducts, radiation, air contaminants, you name it, wage war on others for worldly purposes and visit places we were not meant to be (could be radioactive land, places at risk for natural disasters, etc), as well as change the way man was meant to live by social practices whose effects on society are still largely unknown (some people are on the computer or the XBOX staring at a screen for days or even weeks on end without seeing another soul- that can't be good?) — Outlander
Somewhat disappointing. The book is better.But this bit leaves one wanting to see the film...
In mainstream Christian theology the "devil" is one of at least (assuming they are numbered incrementally) 665 other beings — Banno
So there are things that god does not do on purpose? Unforeseen consequences to his acts? He's not omnipotent, or he's not omniscient? — Banno
Can we really take Yahweh as anything but violent, petulant and egomaniacal? — Tom Storm
Man was given instruction to produce children in a sacred covenant of marriage and to live simply without extravagance. — Outlander
That chapter is largely neglected, as Christians prefer the second version.Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
It's not supposed to, not directly. Original sin does, to the extent that eating the fruit resulted in 1. man's ability to identify evil and do evil and 2. his expulsion from the make-believe garden; forced to live in the real world of disease, hardship, sorrow and pain. (Gen 3:15-19)To the point, "how does freewill explain <insert suffering here>", — Outlander
Yes. You can take him in his proper context as the god of a patriarchal tribe of herdsmen in the middle east of 1500BCE. They had a rough living to make among other rough peoples; they sure could not afford a genteel god. — Vera Mont
But theists would much rather give up on logic than god, so the replies will be - have been - shall we say unphilosophical? — Banno
Faith is indeed an amazing thing, with its capacity to reach beyond mere reason into gullibility. — Banno
Many Christians say that.2. God did not create evility.
— god must be atheist
Sez who, where? — Vera Mont
Four basic premises present in Christian dogma give rise to this argument: — god must be atheist
How is "evility" different than "evil?" — T Clark
But I've also asked myself the question - which may or may not be applicable to religion - why is evil a problem specifically? — Manuel
How does free will explain childhood cancer? Tsetse fly? Covid? — Banno
Evility is a noun. Evil is an adjective. Evil is used as a noun because the English language lacks a noun form of evil. Hence the neologism evility. — god must be atheist
"Evil" is both a noun and an adjective and works very well as either. — T Clark
I have no arguments against that. I am just saying I am not happy with that arrangement, and I created a neologism to circumvent this use of the same word for both. — god must be atheist
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