Really? And this has bothered you for how long? — Isaac
It's the same political shenanigans, just now they've invented a new cudgel 'disinformation'. — Isaac
Americans cannot agree about their elections and do not trust the results. Their democracy is not working. Are we in agreement about that? — unenlightened
The truth cannot be established here (insufficient data) and censorship is, in any case, completely unrelated to truth but rather is being used to further various political ends. — Isaac
Truth cannot be established, because it has historically not been sufficiently valued, has not been protected, and rewarded, but has been betrayed and actively persecuted. — unenlightened
I'm surprised that folks are so undiscriminating about speaking truth and speaking falsely. — unenlightened
The philosophy of freedom without qualification which I rather suspect you are still promoting — unenlightened
if you cannot see the connection with the topic, I cannot think how to explain it to you any clearer. — unenlightened
Neither side value truth. — Isaac
So you are saying - that my talking about the importance of truth is irrelevant, because neither side values the truth? — unenlightened
You are complaining because I have not chosen which lie I prefer? — unenlightened
So you are saying - that my talking about the importance of truth is irrelevant, because neither side values the truth?
— unenlightened
No. I'm saying you talking about truth is irrelevant because the issue - social media censorship - is not about truth. It's opinion that's being censored. The issue is about power, not truth. — Isaac
And you are wrong. — unenlightened
Are we having a conversation? — unenlightened
there is no problem with you expressing your opinion on any media. — unenlightened
You have lost the truth as even a concept, and been reduced to mere opinion — unenlightened
you cannot even see the importance. — unenlightened
Truth cannot be established, because it has historically not been sufficiently valued, has not been protected, and rewarded, but has been betrayed and actively persecuted. And that is why I am troubling to make truth the centre of my interventions here. The philosophy of freedom without qualification which I rather suspect you are still promoting, is the political philosophy that has produced a society in which lies flow so freely that the truth cannot be discerned.
America has valued freedom above truth, and is paying the price. Unfortunately, they have also exported their distorted values around the world. And if you cannot see the connection with the topic, I cannot think how to explain it to you any clearer.
Posterity tends to work out the truth even after efforts to censor it occurs. — NOS4A2
Freedom of speech is the only context in which proper trial and error can occur, and truth can finally work itself out. — NOS4A2
to do this is an absolute defence in law of the right to speak the truth, not the right to tell lies. such a defence could apply to wiki-leaks, to any whistle-blower, to cases of libel and slander, and so on. — unenlightened
So explain how this would work. I write "the judiciary are all corrupt and accept bribes" on Twatter and it gets flagged as 'lies', but it's alright because unenlightened's brilliant scheme defends my right to speak the truth. Now. Who's going to check whether what I've said about the corrupt judiciary is true...? — Isaac
The only answer to corruption is to call it out and end it. — unenlightened
But you're arguing in favour of removing the means by which we could call it out. That seems contradictory. — Isaac
If you think your call out on twitter will change the judiciary or any other thing, then you are sadly deluded. — unenlightened
There is no contradiction in what I say — unenlightened
I am still doing my bit to advocate for the truth. — unenlightened
Twitter has banned Ye for incitement to violence, which is the common death knell for free speech. So much for free speech absolutism. — NOS4A2
There's a direct contradiction. You're advocating for both censorship by institutions controlling public discourse and the ability to freely call out, via public discourse, corruption in those institutions. That's a direct contradiction. You clearly cannot have both. — Isaac
Ironically, such corrupt mutual backscratching is excused as an exercise in free speech. — the Baden
Are you suggesting they've grown a conscience and are acting against their interests now? — Isaac
That is not free speech. That's the free market speaking. — Hanover
I was referring to unrestricted political donations being protected as a form of free speech in the US. — the Baden
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