• Benj96
    2.2k
    Lets consider a big hypothetical, a thought experiment for a moment here and see where it leads.

    If you were given the choice to walk in God's shoes for a moment (whatever that means to you), if you were suddenly the creator. The start of all - the alpha, the end of all - the omega, and everything in between, what would you do with your time as this entity?

    Would you sit back and merely observe? Practice non-interference so to speak. Or would you reveal your true identity? Would you spread your truth? If so who would you tell and why?

    What would you consider good? What would you consider bad? How would you define your godly morality? In what way would your power and wisdom manifest? What say you of free will and determinism?

    In essence, what sort of god would you define yourself as?
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k
    First, I would extend my time as God until I no longer wanted to be God.

    Then I would peer inside 180 Proof's head to see if he actually thinks the way he writes.

    And then I would make a cool afterlife for everyone in which they could leave whenever they want. But everyone must still live out a shitty life on Earth first, so they can appreciate just how cool the afterlife I made for everyone is.
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k


    Seriously though, I have no idea.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    First, I would extend my time as God until I no longer wanted to be God.ToothyMaw

    Haha wouldnt that be all times in existence, unless (desiring not to be god any longer) you were to unbecome god by appointing another in your place?

    Then I would peer inside 180 Proof's head to see if he actually thinks the way he writes.ToothyMaw

    Haha fair lol. So you as god would have a fascination with 180 Proofs mind? I imagine he would be quite honored to get such selective attention.

    And then I would make a cool afterlife for everyone in which they could leave whenever they want.ToothyMaw

    Where would they leave to? Living again? Or some purgatory of total non-awareness and oblivion. Would some memory wiping be in order here?

    But everyone must still live out a shitty life on Earth first, so they can appreciate just how cool the afterlife I made for everyone is.
    7m
    ToothyMaw

    Ah interesting indeed. You would give them the contrast to a super cool afterlife, a paradise of sorts, so they could appreciate it by contrast through the imperfections of living? Seems clever and rational.

    Pray tell, would you exist as the universe in its entirety? Or would you manifest as a person in the flesh so you could interact with living existents?
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    Seriously though, I have no idea.ToothyMaw

    I understand totally. It is a thought of seismic proportions, not one to consider lightly certainly. To be responsible for everything, to be some original cause for all effects. I can't imagine how many lifetimes it might take to consider everything before being sure of the idea.
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k
    What would you consider good? What would you consider bad? How would you define your godly morality? In what way would your power and wisdom manifest? What say you of free will and determinism?Benj96

    Okay, I'll take this seriously. I would allow anyone who no longer wants to suffer (perhaps in a specific way) to elect to no longer suffer, whatever that would entail. That is the main thing I would do.

    Ah interesting indeed. You would give them the contrast to a super cool afterlife, a paradise of sorts, so they could appreciate it by contrast through the imperfections of living? Seems clever and rational.Benj96

    It was a joke. I wouldn't do that.

    And then I would make a cool afterlife for everyone in which they could leave whenever they want.
    — ToothyMaw

    Where would they leave to? Living again? Or some purgatory of total non-awareness and oblivion. Would some memory wiping be in order here?
    Benj96

    Whatever each individual person would want. I could easily determine what each would want with omnipotence. I would actually replicate each person and then ask their replicas what they would want, because it would be too creepy to just create new realities for people based on mind-reading.

    I would unbecome God as quickly as I could, then, as I have no desire to be (a) God.

    edit: furthermore, I would set some failsafe by which everything would default to how it was before I became God if the majority of people agreed they would like it to be so.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    Okay, I'll take this seriously. I would allow anyone who no longer wants to suffer (perhaps in a specific way) to elect to no longer suffer, whatever that would entail. That is the main thing I would do.ToothyMaw

    A noble thing I would say. That people may always have the ability to quench suffering whenever it becomes overwhelming. Would this mean the ability to medicate themselves? Or to seek therapy or support or to perhaps end their life if they truly see no other way out?

    It was a joke. I wouldn't do that.ToothyMaw

    Ah okay I overlooked the joke my apologies. So you would allow them to be able to turn life/living into a blissful/paradise type existence if they wished to? They wouldn't have to wait for an afterlife to enjoy something super fulfilling and cool?


    .
    Whatever each individual person would want. I could easily determine what each would want with omniscience. I would actually replicate each person and then ask their replicas what they would want, because it would be too creepy to just create new realities for people based on mind-reading.ToothyMaw

    Hmm okay I'm following. Perhaps instead of replicating them might I suggest you could merely choose not to know what they're thinking and ask them what they think? As that would be entirely in your power, to bestow them with privacy of mind.

    I think this is a prudent thing to do. They might be scared of you/at your entire mercy if they think you can read their mind at will. At least if given the choice to be asked and speak their unique thoughts, they would have autonomy as to what they wish to happen to them.

    But it sounds like you would be in favour of them having their own destiny and choice. Which I think is a lovely thing to do.

    I would unbecome God as quickly as I could, then, as I have no desire to be (a) God.ToothyMaw

    Haha, how amusing! :P yes I think being God would be the greatest of responsibilities one could ever have. It's scary to wield such potency. Not many people would actually envy the position I imagine.

    I for one think you're doing a good job with the thought experiment so far. You seem quite considerate and level headed. If you wish to continue Im curious to see how it evolves. Are you?
  • javi2541997
    4.9k
    , what would you do with your time as this entity?Benj96

    Nothing. Why the people should expect something from me for being God?
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k
    If you wish to continue Im curious to see how it evolves. Are you?Benj96

    This whole thing makes me uncomfortable, but yeah, sure.

    Hmm okay I'm following. Perhaps instead of replicating them might I suggest you could merely choose not to know what they're thinking and ask them what they think? As that would be entirely in your power, to bestow them with privacy of mind.Benj96

    Sure, that sounds even better.

    In my earlier comment I added that I would make a failsafe that would default the world back to how it was before I became God if the majority of people wanted it to be so. I think that that would make things less scary.

    , what would you do with your time as this entity?
    — Benj96

    Nothing. Why the people should expect something from me for being God?
    javi2541997

    Damn dude. You don't think you would do anything good if you could?
  • Tom Storm
    8.3k
    In essence, what sort of god would you define yourself as?Benj96

    Not sure. But since nature is so cruel and so poorly designed, I'd probably try to fix it and remove the diseases and design flaws and weaknesses and predatory behaviours which abound in this current wonky, barbaric 'creation'.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    Nothing. Why the people should expect something from me for being God?javi2541997

    Perhaps they ought not to? I mean you as "God" in this hypothetical have full reign and authority over how to be. As a God ought to.

    You choose how to be. If you want to be non-interfering and simply observing that's your perogative. Who are we - any mere human, to question your authority?

    How do you think you would feel watching over your creation in the background, unseen, unknown? Would you ever be tempted to come to earth? Or would you prefer to be interpreted indirectly? Mysteriously.
  • T Clark
    13k
    I'd probably try to fix it and remove the diseases and design flaws and weaknesses and predatory behaviours which abound in this current wonky, barbaric 'creation'.Tom Storm

    You would just fuck things up. Anyone would. I hope there's a reset button.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    Sure, that sounds even better.

    In my earlier comment I added that I would make a failsafe that would default the world back to how it was before I became God if the majority of people wanted it to be so. I think that that would make things less scary.
    ToothyMaw

    Oooh. Yes I agree a failsafe is a good thing to have in place. I mean as God I'm sure you could undo anything, reverse time to any point. So you could rest assured that any mistake you make you can simple rewind and restart.
    Wipe the slate clean as it were.

    This whole thing makes me uncomfortable, but yeah, sure.ToothyMaw

    For sure haha. For me when I first heard the question I felt the exact same way. I think it's natural to feel that way don't worry.
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k
    You would just fuck things up. Anyone would. I hope there's a reset button.T Clark

    Yes, definitely.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    Not sure. But since nature is so cruel and so poorly designed, I'd probably try to fix it and remove the diseases and design flaws and weaknesses and predatory behaviours which abound in this current wonky, barbaric 'creation'.Tom Storm

    Yes I think anyone with good intentions would try to un-tangle the shit from the good stuff and minimise the barbarism. However, it being your creation, how might you feel about the bad things that have transpired? Would you feel culpable or would you feel just knowing that you can change it or start over at a moments notice?

    That you are perhaps trialling an experiment that didn't work out as you imagined. Or would you believe that the bad is neccesary as an opposite for good. That it is required for contrast and to give perspective and meaning?
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    You would just fuck things up. Anyone would. I hope there's a reset button.T Clark

    So would you say him as God would not be all knowing and would make mistakes along the way that ought to be corrected? Or would you posit that fuck ups are neccesary in the evolution of a system (trial and error).
    Perhaps some fuck ups that happen now may be seen as neccesary in the future through hindsight?
  • javi2541997
    4.9k
    Damn dude. You don't think you would do anything good if you could?ToothyMaw

    No, because I do not know what is the meaning of "good"
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k
    Oooh. Yes I agree a failsafe is a good thing to have in place. I mean as God I'm sure you could undo anything, reverse time to any point. So you could rest assured that any mistake you make you can simple rewind and restart.
    Wipe the slate clean as it were.
    Benj96

    No, I would set things in place and then unbecome God with a failsafe in place. The less time spent as God, and the more minimalistic the changes the better, as T Clark correctly points out that anyone would likely fuck it up if they tried to fix anything significant. Or maybe anything at all.
  • javi2541997
    4.9k
    You choose how to be. If you want to be non-interfering and simply observing that's your perogative. Who are we - any mere human, to question your authority?Benj96

    It is interesting that you see God as an authority. I just see it as pure escapism. I cannot figure out all the problems and uncertainties of the people because that's would be being against the nature of humanity. If you want to question my authority, please go ahead. Isn't it a real act of freedom?
  • universeness
    6.3k
    I would spend eternity musing about how absurd my existence was and trying to see if I can see myself.
    I would wonder why I existed and what god like creature created me.
    I would also wonder why I didn't have the answers to those questions.
    I would then wonder who was I talking to or 'thinking' to? What 'I' meant and why was I thinking in English?
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k
    No, because I do not know what is the meaning of "good"javi2541997

    Well, I guess you don't care much for ethics.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    It is interesting that you see God as an authority. I just see it as pure escapism. I cannot figure out all the problems and uncertainties of the people because that's would be being against the nature of humanity. If you want to question my authority, please go ahead. Isn't it a real act of reedom?javi2541997

    Haha quite right. Perhaps being God would be pure escapism - from fault, from blame, from culpability. Many people would imagine God as an origin and thus an authority over all things time elucidates into being.

    And yes I think any god that creates/created humanity (flawed beings) would have to give them free will, uncertainty, a lack of omniscience so that they might learn. So if one was an omniscient god it seems to allow for free will they would have to appear absent, illusive, a non existent parent departed from what they created. To allow for true independence.
  • ToothyMaw
    1.2k


    Actually, it would be impossible to unbecome God potentially, so I would just make myself no longer exist so as to maintain whatever world everyone wants after it is over.
  • javi2541997
    4.9k
    Well, I guess you don't care much for ethics.ToothyMaw

    I do not even care about living... everything is full-filled by ambiguities.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    I would spend eternity musing about how absurd my existence was and trying to see if I can see myself.
    I would wonder why I existed and what god like creature created me.
    I would also wonder why I didn't have the answers to those questions.
    universeness

    So you would wonder, be in awe of yourself, pursue your own mysterious existence, seek out a philosophy, question your own motives and rational for as long as you existed? Whatever form you take?

    I would then wonder who was I talking to? What 'I' meant and why was I thinking in English?universeness

    Perhaps you're talking only to yourself. If you were an all encompassing God that's all you could ever question. Your own sense of "I".
  • javi2541997
    4.9k
    And yes I think any god that creates/created humanity (flawed beings) would have to give them free will, uncertainty, a lack of omniscience so that they might learn. So if one was an omniscient god it seems to allow for free will they would have to appear absent, illusive, a non existent parent departed from what they created. To allow for true independence.Benj96

    Interesting view but that can create a paradox: A God can be illusive and non existent but at the same time it needs to be believed by somone. Otherwise, the existence and omnipotence of God would be useless. What would be the point of a God's mercy if nobody is seeing around?
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    Actually, it would be impossible to unbecome God potentially, so I would just make myself no longer exist so as to maintain whatever world everyone wants after it is over.ToothyMaw

    Hmm an intriguingly thought for sure. If it was impossible to unbecome God how ought you make yourself not exist without making everything not exist?

    Unless perhaps the only way to not know yourself as you truly were is to exist in finitude within yourself. As one object withing the entire object (the universe). If you chose to wipe your own memory of self clean then you could exist as an individual questioning the entire universe like anyone else.

    What do you mean by "no longer exist" if existence as God is all you have ever known. Would you ha e to settle for merely pretending you don't exist?
  • DingoJones
    2.8k
    You would just fuck things up. Anyone would. I hope there's a reset button.T Clark

    You are selling yourself short if you think you couldn't improve things with omnipotence. It would be easy.
    Also, of course reset button. Youre god. Will it to be so and it is so. How could you really fuck up?
  • universeness
    6.3k
    So you would wonder, be in awe of yourself, pursue your own mysterious existence, seek out a philosophy, question your own motives and rational for as long as you existed? Whatever form you take?Benj96

    Probably not as I would have nothing to compare myself to, so how could I experience awe?
    How would I know what I was? Who or what would tell me? Would I just know who and what I was?
    What do you think my purpose would be? Are you positing this god after it has created something inferior to itself? Why would it have a need to do that?
  • Vera Mont
    3.1k
    How would you define your godly morality?Benj96

    Do no avoidable harm. Minimize suffering, maximize happiness for every sentient being in your area of influence.

    Would you spread your truth? If so who would you tell and why?Benj96

    Absolutely. Everyone. Beam the new rules directly into their brains.
    What say you of free will and determinism?Benj96

    Anyone can exercise the will they have, however free or constrained they believe it to be, as long as they do no avoidable harm.
    In essence, what sort of god would you define yourself as?Benj96

    Despotic.

    I would place all the humans under a kind of house arrest: confine them to their cities and towns, amalgamating scattered villages into the nearest market town, with a reasonable green belt around each. They would become independent political units, with a dome (yes, dome, but an impregnable one) for protection from the elements, and provide them with the technology for food production, communication and medical science, but remove all the implements of destruction and pollution from their control. In effect, remove the planet from their control. They couldn't break out, but I'd lift out one or a group from time to time, as a reward for particularly good behaviour, and take them for a hiking vacation in the human-free landscape.
    (Don't worry about the cattle and domestic fowl; I'd liberate them and help them organize into the herds and flocks they were supposed to form on their own. By the time enough predators return be a real danger to them, they, too, will have reverted to their wild habits. guess I'd better calm down the climate-change disrupted weather for their sake; stop those wildfires and floods.)

    Once I'd got the system working to my satisfaction, I'd put a timer on it; domes start dissolving in 1000 earth years, starting with the smallest, and gradually disappearing until, by 3150, even Tokyo and Delhi are domeless. The air should be pretty good by then.
  • Benj96
    2.2k
    Interesting view but that can create a paradox: A God can be illusive and non existent but at the same time it needs to be believed by somone. Otherwise, the existence and omnipotence of God would be useless. What would be the point of a God's mercy if nobody is seeing around?
    4m
    javi2541997

    Well, appearing to be absent and truly being absent (not existing) are two different things. Perhaps if by creating humanity, god imbued humans with the ability to intuitively feel or seek him/her out through reason and/or ethics, and at the same time became the passive object of observation and speculation, God could satisfy "not objectively existing" /being "ill-defined", all while being a part of all who observe him/her through observation.

    If people are a part of the universe then they are fractions/partialities of the whole system, and have the ability to question it from unique individual perspective/points of reference.

    God as the universe could be endlessly posited, speculated about while also being within humans, being human.
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