jospehus         
         
Agent Smith         
         
Art48         
         I'd say the proposition "two plus two = four" exists apart from human consciousness.You are assuming that there are such things as propositions apart from human consciousness. — TheMadMan
Astro Cat         
         
gevgala         
         Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.