It seems to be that the way psychologists and psychiatrists diagnose mental illness is through conversation with the patient. — rickyk95
Psychology (a science by virtue of the method it employs to acquire knowledge that can be rationally explained and reliably applied) is very broad (i.e., not limited to a clinical application). — Galuchat
Also, Psychology (a science by virtue of the method it employs to acquire knowledge that can be rationally explained and reliably applied) is very broad (i.e., not limited to a clinical application). — Galuchat
So it is a mental illness to make observations and then categorize those observations? If that is the case, then every human being is mentally ill.Thus it turns out that the scientific mindset not only does not work psychologically, but is in fact a mental illness in its own right. — unenlightened
Of course it can. It is based on observations, categorizing those observations, and sharing those observations with other psychologists in order to apply them to the masses. Psychology has been around for about 150 years and since then it has several other fields branching out from, or overlapping psychology and neuroscience - like cognitive neuroscience and physiological psychology....can psychology really be called a science? — rickyk95
Thus it turns out that the scientific mindset not only does not work psychologically, but is in fact a mental illness in its own right.
— unenlightened
So it is a mental illness to make observations and then categorize those observations? If that is the case, then every human being is mentally ill. — Harry Hindu
Observing your own mental states and categorizing those mental states, and then sharing those observations with others is a scientific act. — Harry Hindu
It's not a very successful science. — unenlightened
Do the so-called "hard" sciences have no shortcomings? — Galuchat
The shortcomings of Clinical Psychology are acknowledged by its own practitioners. — Galuchat
By focusing on Clinical Psychology, 97% of Psychology is ignored. — Galuchat
By focusing on clinical psychology, everything else is being ignored for the moment - so the fuck what? It's the topic of the thread. — unenlightened
There is a Wittgensteinian private language confusion at work here. — sime
Uh, no it's not. Your refusal to acknowledge the practical differences between academic psychology and clinical psychology is entirely against the premise of the thread. — Heister Eggcart
I studied psychology for four years at one o them academic universities, where they play with rats, and also monkeys in the good old days. What is your qualification for wagging your fingers so strenuously?If you know nothing about the subject, keep your fingers still, eh? — Heister Eggcart
The way in which we diagnose depression seems to be way less reliable than the way that for example you would find a tumor on someones body, or a life weakening viral infection. — rickyk95
The topic is mental illness diagnosis, if you care to look, and I am fairly confident that that is part of clinical psychology. So kindly do not berate me for talking mainly about clinical psychology. I am well aware that there are practical differences, just as there are between medicine and medical research, but again, so the fuck what? — unenlightened
I studied psychology for four years at one o them academic universities, where they play with rats, and also monkeys in the good old days. What is your qualification for wagging your fingers so strenuously? — unenlightened
What is your qualification for wagging your fingers so strenuously?
— unenlightened
You studied psychology for four years, yet you still can't figure out why it's important to distinguish between different forms of psychology. Wow. *grabs rope* — Heister Eggcart
Depression does have a specific definition (it's a collection of moods and behavior changes), but the term is also used very generally. There is a difference between "major depression" and "my life is a pile of shit and I am very unhappy about it".
"Depression or unhappiness" generates a lot of traffic in doctor's offices, but some of the patients that report depression really do have a mood disorder called "depression".
Consider something more specific: bi-polar or manic-depressive disorder. The visible signs of mania or severe depression do not require a patients report. Sleeplessness, severe agitation, screaming incoherently, extreme anxiety, and response to hallucinations for mania; for depression one sees flat affect, retarded movement, very slow response in speech, lack of physical care, excessive periods of sleeping, very poor task performance, and so on.
Major and severe psychiatric conditions like paranoid schizophrenia, anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc. all have obvious behavioral components.
The diagnosis of physical maladies often begins with self-reports. If patients don't report double vision and headaches, a doctor will not order MRI or CAT scans for brain tumors. Severe headaches are invisible to MRIs or CAT scans, so a diagnosis of Migraine pretty much has to depend on patient reports. Blood tests can reveal some disorders, but not all of them, and even tumors can be mistaken for something else. — Bitter Crank
One of the problems (I think it is a problem, anyway) with psychiatric diagnosis is that way too many definitions of abnormalities have been sub-divided too often to create a very large list of disorders. Doctors and other practitioners need recognized diagnoses in order to get paid, and the DSM supplies those diagnostic numbers. The more numbers there are, the more often one can get paid for dealing with what may be extremely nebulous 'problems'. — Bitter Crank
Ah, none at all I see. Keep holding the rope. — unenlightened
Depression does have a specific definition (it's a collection of moods and behavior changes), — Bitter Crank
The diagnosis of physical maladies often begins with self-reports. — Bitter Crank
This is a bit too cynical I think. Number pushing can be attributed to practically any field. To be honest, you're getting more at the fact that medical practitioners aren't themselves without problems (even though modern society holds them up now as gods.) — Heister Eggcart
So we resort to psychobabble; talking therapies. There is (because it is the only possibility left) a way of looking at the world and oneself, that leads to depression - a meme. And another name for 'a way of looking at the world and oneself' is 'a psychological theory'. — unenlightened
We have a behavioural definition, and we have an associated brain state, unsurprisingly, but we still don't have a cause, and it is the lack of physical cause that makes it a classical mental illness. Exit science, muttering 'give me more research grants'. — unenlightened
The major mental illnesses must have some kind of biological origin, and the many not-major mental illnesses (or not mental illnesses at all) are the result of the condition that Freud (and many others) have identified: "Happiness just isn't in the cards a good share of the time". — Bitter Crank
I am pretty sure that at least 20% of the population are quite unhappy; some of the population are profoundly unhappy. In most cases, there is nothing wrong with their "psychology". Their brains are in working order. They can concentrate, learn, remember, cope, produce, get up every day and go to work, get their laundry washed, and so on. If they are unhappy, they need to change -- their job, their family, their society, themselves, or all of the above. If they can't change, then they are going to stay unhappy, or they'll make some kind of accommodation. They don't need therapy--they need courage. — Bitter Crank
I think the talk of a "brain state" is somewhat misleading. "State" implies static, but the brain is continuously active. Ideas, beliefs, and concepts can be understood as static things, but I think it is a mistake to try to understand the brain in terms of states. — Metaphysician Undercover
I am pretty sure that at least 20% of the population are quite unhappy; some of the population are profoundly unhappy. In most cases, there is nothing wrong with their "psychology". Their brains are in working order. They can concentrate, learn, remember, cope, produce, get up every day and go to work, get their laundry washed, and so on. If they are unhappy, they need to change -- their job, their family, their society, themselves, or all of the above. If they can't change, then they are going to stay unhappy, or they'll make some kind of accommodation. They don't need therapy--they need courage. — Bitter Crank
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