Did philosophy begin somewhere? — Bret Bernhoft

Sulawesi, in Indonesia https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journey-oldest-cave-paintings-world-180957685/ The oldest cave paintings date from 35,400 years ago.
To paint something from memory, in a private, protected place signifies abstract thought. What the purpose of the cave paintings was, we can only speculate - but the point is, that long-ago artist made figurative representations of real things. And that means his or her people were capable of thinking about the world and themselves in symbolic terms. And that's philosophy.

If so, where and how and when and why and who and what? — Bret Bernhoft

So, there's your when, where and who. But why? To organize one's physical experience in the world into a coherent system of abstract symbols, in order to think about the world even when it's not in front of you. Once we can abstract, symbolize and organize what we know, we can make stories, plans, rules, promises - and communicate our ideas, as well as our immediate feelings and intentions.

...is there a common root for all such endeavors? — Bret Bernhoft

I can only speak for myself. The root of my interest in philosophy is a need for self-awareness.

Science is about knowing what is true in the world. Philosophy is about doubting what is known to be true in the world.

Along those lines, I wonder, is there a common root for all such endeavors? — Bret Bernhoft

No doubt, if there is such a thing, "a common root" of thinking is Change. :fire:

Did philosophy begin somewhere?

Philosophy, IMO, begins (again and again) wherever the question "How do we know our assumptions are true or our givens are real?" predominates like an itch that grows as we scratch it.

In my own view, the root of my interest is trying to understand why despite the fact we have limited lives, we are forced to do something because otherwise we would feel "empty". Even in your thread, you have started as a "maturing pursuit".

... I guess we are so ambiguous.

I can only speak for myself. The root of my interest in philosophy is a need for self-awareness — T Clark

:up:

The radix of all philosophy is the desire need to know reality, in and for itself and/or as a path to success, not as a businessman, not as a king, not as an engineer, not as a doctor, but as a human.

Did philosophy begin somewhere? If so, where and how and when and why and who and what? — Bret Bernhoft

The actual word, 'philo-sophia', 'love-wisdom' is derived from Greek, and what is recognised in Western culture as philosophy is likewise derived from ancient Greek culture. Some say the first to be given the title 'philosopher' was Pythagoras, others that philosophy proper begins with Plato's Apology. Some will argue that philosophy is universal and found in other cultures also, and there's some truth in that, but I think for the English-speaking world, it's worthwhile trying to think about the subject in the terms that are associated with the philosophical tradition, proper. Trying to re-invent it from scratch would be rarely productive, save for the occasional prodigy.

the occasional prodigy. — Wayfarer

René Descartes?

you are starting to get obsessed with Cartesian dualism :rofl:

you are starting to get obsessed with Cartesian dualism :rofl: — javi2541997

:lol:

Along those lines, I wonder, is there a common root for all such endeavors?
— Bret Bernhoft
No doubt, if there is such a thing, "a common root" of thinking is Change. :fire:

Did philosophy begin somewhere?
Philosophy, IMO, begins (again and again) wherever the question "How do we know our assumptions are true or our givens are real?" predominates like an itch that grows as we scratch it. — 180 Proof

:100:

Addiction risk, beware! Truth can have you hooked for life. :fear:

René Descartes? — Agent Smith

Parvenu!

Parvenu! — Vera Mont

Forgot his background, read it though.

Philosophy occurs when a community permits discourses that question its truth and necessity. When the "other" within is recognised and integrated rather than immediately ostrasized or punished.

Philosophy, IMO, begins (again and again) wherever the question "How do we know our assumptions are true or our givens are real?" predominates like an itch that grows as we scratch it. — 180 Proof

:up:

Technically, the meanings or interpretations of words seems to be foundational. For example the endless discussions about the word being.

Along those lines, I wonder, is there a common root for all such endeavors? Did philosophy begin somewhere? If so, where and how and when and why and who and what? — Bret Bernhoft

Philosophy probably began with conversation. This exchange of ideas led to the creation of values and beliefs and a concomitant exploration of whether these were accurate. Humans can't help but manufacture meaning and explanatory narratives and argue about them.

But it would be eye-opening to learn how others perceive and understand the origins of philosophy to be. — Bret Bernhoft

Philosophy is a name for a specific kind of thinking— a type of thinking distinguished by its questions; questions that are universal.

What is the question of questions? Answer, in my view: the question of being.

So when did philosophy begin? Well, the oldest extant writings tells us that’s more or less the early Indians and Greeks, who questioned being.

I believe that philosophy, at least in the form we know it evolved from the ground of religion. I posted something speaking partly to this. I reproduce part of that post below:

"The evolution of knowledge in the context of the history of mankind started with the development of religion (from animism to monotheism). This was man's first attempt at understanding the world. Most of what was formulated in this stage was based on ignorance (not judging). We had no way of thinking about things other than how we thought about ourselves, thus everything that happened happened because someone did it (anthropomorphism); the birth of gods and angels, place holders for what is not known. The gods held our questions in the form of answers waiting to be questioned by the coming of philosophy.

Out of religion emerged philosophy, a new refined way of thinking and inquiry. The gods began to be questioned, and thus new understanding evolved, proliferating into a multitude of different philosophies as had happened with religion. Environmental selection pruned and nurtured the tree of this growing tree of knowledge.

From philosophy came science (natural philosophy), a fusion of logic, mathematics, and other ideas and methods developed by philosophy. Science is an even further refinement of thinking and is the leaf edge of the tree of our knowledge and understanding. A natural selection among the elements of philosophy."


The sophisticated kinds of questions that can be asked in the traditional philosophical way could not have been possible without first the influence of religion.

"I do not know how to teach philosophy without becoming a disturber of established religion."
~Benedictus de Spinoza

I believe that philosophy, at least in the form we know it evolved from the ground of religion. — punos

I agree philosophy began with questioning – calling-into-question – (otherwise unquestioned) religious beliefs & practices (e.g. myths, idols, rites, superstitions, creeds, taboos, castes, testimonies, scriptures, etc), seeking to substitute naturalistic explanations for supernatural fairytales.

I wonder, is there a common root for all such endeavors? Did philosophy begin somewhere? If so, where and how and when and why and who and what — Bret Bernhoft

Philosophy begins at one simple phenomenon: Curiosity. A trait not exclusive to humans by any stretch, but certainly exemplified best, to its furthest reaches, by us.

That all important word "Why?" and its offspring: "who", "what" "when", "where", "which" and "how".

They are all components of how curiosity manifests, and perhaps more importantly all of them reflect fundamentally the nature of the reality/universe we inhabit. The answer to the questions we have.

Who =subjects, what = matter/material/objects, when =time, where =space, which =definition/discrimination/categorisation and how = their associations/relationships with one another, how they interact.

Finally "Why" = the all encompassing umbrella term. The formula for Meaning.

These core concepts are the basis for all possible thought and linguistics and simply put: are all we need to ask about anything at all, the infinity of application of conscious awareness.

Philosophers attempt to use these to ask about their origin. A circular argument: using premises (question words) to find conclusions (what question words represent).
For example: Why is when? (why does time exist), "what is who" (what makes up a person?), where is which? (what is the location of all the pieces of the puzzle/"how" do they all come toghether?)

Notice how the sentences in brackets still use who, what, when, where etc to rephrase or grammatise the questions?

"Why" does something happen vs "how" does something happen vs for "what" purpose does something happen vs for "which" reason does something happen vs "who" makes something happen" vs "when ought something happen?"
Arguably very similar questions that can answered much the same way.

What is the root of all philosophy?

Metacognition:Thinking about thought and belief.

At the heart of philosophy is the penis &vagina! :lol:

You make an important point about the who, what, where, when, how, and why questions, these are like the atoms of questions. I don't know how many people have done this but i think it's potentialy inspiring to create a confusion matrix of all the fundamental questions. As such:

results of a confusion matrix of fundamental questions: who, what, where, when, how, why

who is who?
who is what?
who is where?
who is when?
who is how?
who is why?

what is who?
what is what?
what is where?
what is when?
what is how?
what is why?

where is who?
where is what?
where is where?
where is when?
where is how?
where is why?

when is who?
when is what?
when is where?
when is when?
when is why?

how is who?
how is what?
how is where?
how is when?
how is how?
how is why?

why is who?
why is what?
why is where?
why is when?
why is how?
why is why?

The quest of philosophy begins from among these questions.

they do indeed haha. That's a super interesting matrix. Keen to look through and enjoy the numerous fundamental questions.

I've noticed one commonality, a lot of these are used in day to day language. They're every day things, as well as deep philosophical pursuits.

For example a new substitute teacher going "okay I have this list of names, so, "who is where? " and proceeds to call the roll so students can identify themselves.
And on a deep philosophical level it could be a question like "where does subjectivity come from?" "where does one self end and the next begin" "how does subjective awareness of individuals overlap?"

where is when? — punos

Or in this case. "So there's a party? Where is it and when (where is when).
This may enable us to further understand the role of verbs like" to be" well as the role of addition (and), subtraction (except/exclusion), division and multiplication in language.

As in the following sentence: the party (what) will be at the beach (where) at 9pm (when), you can get there on bus 43 (how) and (+) you're invited, except (-) your friend, we don't like them (division).

It's as if natural language models and mathematics/physics can be directly correlated which makes sense considering the success of natural language models of AI these days based on algorithms.

Does that mean they're basic consciousness/brains or are we just complex biological machinery? I wonder

At the heart of philosophy is the penis &vagina! :lol: — Agent Smith

Not me waiting for the antinatalists to swarm in lol

who = specific person
what = specific thing
where = specific place
when = specific time
how = specific process or function
why = specific logic

Yes, one can use the Ws as data structures that act as variables: what = party, when = 10:00 pm, where = address

Further more a fundamental logic confusion matrix can help in understanding how to process these questions. In fact there is an entire system of confusion matrices that can be networked together to yield a knowledge structure.

fundamental logic confusion matrix: NOT, AND, OR

NOT NOT = ?
NOT AND = ?
NOT OR = ?

AND NOT = ?
AND AND = ?
AND OR = ?

OR NOT = ?
OR AND = ?
OR OR = ?

These are the process forms (like logic gates).

Along those lines, I wonder, is there a common root for all such endeavors? Did philosophy begin somewhere? If so, where and how and when and why and who and what? — Bret Bernhoft

Though some aspects of what we could consider philosophical thinking where probably always already present and fused into the mythological and the religious, I would say a common root (not necessarily the only one) probably was writing, or at least the more widespread use and cultural integration of writing. There language becomes something that is more fixed, and can more easily be reflected on.
With words surviving past the authors utterances and the concrete situations he made those in, you get more of a need for interpretation (what does such and such really mean?) and a need for fixing meaning over different contexts and precise definitions etc... you get more abstraction, which is what is needed for philosophy.

In short it co-evolved with, or was a by-product of, new technological evolutions in language-use.... as we started using language in other ways, we also evolved other ways of thinking to fit those.

What is the root of all philosophy? — Bret bernhoft

The recognition of and resultant desire to resolve bewilderment and sorrow at their psychological origin

Hello everyone, and thank you for your insights. I don't claim to be a philosopher, or even able to effectively philosophize. But, just as many of your have indicated, starting with curiosity is a good and worthy beginning. Which is why I asked this question; I would like to do better, to be better at this aspect of life, the doing and churning of philosophy.

I am taking my time to read through your responses, and what strikes me as interesting, is (what appears to me to be) a fairly common thread. That being a sort of eager and earnest anxiety about understanding. Be that life, or existence or human consciousness. Whatever the motivation, there seems to be a need to (firstly) consider and (secondly) integrate the what, why, how, where, when and who of this universe. And that's appealing to my philosophically inexperienced brain.

Believe me or not, I cherish my interactions on this forum. I've been set straight on a number of (in my humble opinion) critical arenas of consideration. With the vessel of that course correction being philosophical dialogue. And just as Joseph Campbell's monomyth depicts, there will always be something more to explore. But after having asked the question at the center of this thread, I'm pleased to know that this journey well underway. And possible.