Sure if you disagree agree against the precepts of humility, compassion, kindness and the discouragement of vanity and revenge. If your values as an atheist are superior to these then by all means keep them to yourself. — invicta
There’s nothing naive about those values, calling them naive with expanding on why strikes me as unjustifed judgment. — invicta
On what grounds do you disagree with these moral teachings irrespective of a creator God? — invicta
Speaking of "faux footnotes", can you "present a clear argument" to show why any of my footnotes is "faux". That would be instructive, and help me to communicate in your language. :smile:The most I have "accused" (your word) you of is not being able to either follow or present a clear argument.
Despite the faux footnotes. — Banno
OK. I was just trying to be accommodating to your & my limitations.No. — Banno
do you think I’m making sense in the above things regardless of god, certain values are non-negotiable? — invicta
Our minds do not—contrary to many views currently popular—create truth. Rather, they must be conformed to the truth of things given in creation. And such conformity is possible only as the moral virtues become deeply embedded in our character, a slow and halting process. We have lost the awareness of the close bond that links the knowing of truth to the condition of purity. That is, in order to know the truth we must become persons of a certain sort. The full transformation of character that we need will, in fact, finally require the virtues of faith, hope, and love. And this transformation will not necessarily—perhaps not often—be experienced by us as easy or painless. Hence the transformation of self that we must—by God’s grace—undergo “perhaps resembles passing through something akin to dying.”
As long as the need for religion is felt, humanity will not be better off without it. I doubt that need is going to disappear. — Janus
That’s like saying that if the need for a drug is felt humanity will not be better off without it. If the drug was never know it would not be missed.
If you mean something else I think you may need to elaborate on the nature of the need that you mention, and why only a religion can fulfill it. — praxis
Some people are simply attracted to that way of life, and others not. — Janus
To our surprise, the lecturer was able to demonstrate that every definition was incomplete or inaccurate. We couldn't, in the end, come up with a definition. — Wayfarer
By all means question or be sceptical of idea such as god, but to knock it down altogether is to remain ever in infancy. — invicta
Like anything human, it may be awful and great. — Tom Storm
And whilst that may be true of any religion it could also be true of atheists in their every day beliefs about the world. — invicta
I think the need to believe in something transcendant can only be satisfied by religion, and I think that need is inexplicably there in some people and absent in others. I think if you could somehow wipe out all existing religions and knowledge of them, religion would be reinvented. — Janus
You can't kill a religion.
— Benj96
But religions can and have died, the religions of ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc., etc. — Art48
You need to explain why religion is needed to believe in something transcendent. — praxis
In Architecture school, I was once assigned the task of inventing a new religion, then designing a church or temple for its peculiar worship needs. Since I had been recently reading about Theosophy, instead of mars-worship, or buglike-alien-worship, or chocolate-chip-cookie worship, I chose the actual doctrines & practices of Theosophy (god wisdom) as the functional requirements for my building. It was so foreign to my upbringing that it seemed pure fantasy. FWIW, I was not then, nor am I now, a believer or practitioner of mystical Theosophy. "Not that there is anything wrong with that" :smile:I was (and am) a theosophical type (small t), who believes that the different wisdom traditions portray profound truths, but they are very hard to grasp. — Wayfarer
To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton: Of course, not all believers are stupid but almost all the stupid people I've ever met are believers.I’m angry at stupidity because it leads to ignorance and ignorance leads to evil. — invicta
:up:There are those" seems to be covertly pointing at yours truly.
— Gnomon
Indeed.
Nowhere have I accused you of new ageism, nor of "science bashing"
The most I have "accused" (your word) you of is not being able to either follow or present a clear argument.
Despite the faux footnotes. — Banno
You need to explain why religion is needed to believe in something transcendent. — praxis
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.