Before we can have better reporting we must have a better-educated population, — Athena

We already have good reporting; it just doesn't get sufficient support.

Publically owned TV seems to be doing better than privately owned stations but often they are too opinionated and one-sided and flat-out rude talking over the person they are interviewing. — Athena

I haven't seen any of the PBS reporters be opinionated (unless it was an editorial comment), one-sided (unless it was coverage of one specific POV to balance coverage of a different one) or rude to an interviewee, but I've sure seen some ducking and weaving to avoid giving a straight answer.

The values that support charismatic leaders. — Athena

News media are not there to teach values. They're there to impart accurate information. Children's programs are supposed to illustrate values, virtues and social responsibility, and I think public children's programming does that.
Leaders don't need "charisma", whatever that is; they need integrity, dedication, stamina and the good sense to surround themselves with knowledgeable advisors and competent administrators.

Leaders don't need "charisma", whatever that is; they need integrity, dedication, stamina and the good sense to surround themselves with knowledgeable advisors and competent administrators. — Vera Mont

Trump was elected and many believe he won the second election too. There is a real chance he will win the next election and this is so because of his charisma.

Charismatic authority is a concept of leadership developed by the German sociologist Max Weber. It involves a type of organization or a type of leadership in which authority derives from the charisma of the leader. This stands in contrast to two other types of authority: legal authority and traditional authority. — Wikipedia

Charisma is perhaps the most important thing for a candidate to have because it is what gets the votes.

By definition, the charismatic leadership style uses verbal and nonverbal communication to charm, influence, and persuade others to help them fulfill their mandate or see things as they do. This type of leader makes those around them believe that they can achieve any goal or milestone, even in the face of adversity. They do this by displaying a positive attitude, showing empathy, telling stories, using humor, reading people, and working a room. — Emily May

Trump did raise an army to storm the Capitol Building to take the presidency by force and they all wrongly believed without question that was the right thing to do. It was this Trump's behavior that has him on trial, not his words. He can legally lie all he wants but attempting to prevent Biden from taking office was not legal behavior and it blows me away that his followers do not see that and do not worry about what he does with power when he is in a position of great power. That is the power of charisma.

That is the power of charisma. — Athena

And what you described was not a leader; it is a sociopath. US media should have ignored him to death from the minute he announced his candidacy - he only does what he does for the attention; he's an addict. Instead, they're still featuring his ugly, stupid smirk every single day on my annoying pop-ups screen. I see nothing in PBS broadcasting - not news shows, not documentaries and not discussion or interview shows - that promote any such behaviour. But I used to see plenty of it on FUX, before we cancelled regular television. Now I don't hear the vitriol or the advertising.
Minor point of accuracy: Trump didn't raise an army. Trump can't hide a few dozen boxes of stolen documents - what makes you think he's competent to organize anything? The yahoos recruited over half a decade by Wallace, Goldwater, Gingrich et al, propagandized by Sinclair/Murdoch, armed to the teeth by the NRA lobby and empowered by the southern GOP election-fraud machine, were economically insecure, emotionally immature, chronically aggrieved and primed for someone to point them out a scapegoat and say "Throw your tantrum. I'll let you get away with it." That's all he did, and he's still trying to bribe them with the promise of pardons. The situation had been set up by the constitution, pushed to the back-burner and pulled to the front by various political factions as it served their interest from time to time. All trump did was plug into a ready-made slot at the moment their two biggest betes noires were looming on the horizon and then keep telling them what they wanted to hear.

Everyone thinks I am wrong to do anything and that I should act cowardly and do nothing but stay out of the problem. But I am thinking if we do not hold this authority in check, we lose our liberty and that means we have fought every war nothing, and any acts of war we commit from here are wrong because we no longer have the personal power and liberty we once had. The authority above us in held in check and people who see this love Trump, but they do not see Trump is our Hitler, using our anger and fear to turn us against our government and put all the power in his hands and his hands only, just as Hitler did. — Athena

You may already be familiar with the content of the two videos below, filmed in Vancouver Canada and Kensington Philadelphia, only a few days ago! We both know there are many more examples all around this planet.
Good people like yourself, @Vera Mont, and many many other people online, will never accept this f****** bullshit and that is where my strength and outrage finds help, maintenance and hope.



This one in Kensington Philadelphia was filmed only yesterday!

And what you described was not a leader; it is a sociopath. US media should have ignored him to death from the minute he announced his candidacy - he only does what he does for the attention; he's an addict. Instead, they're still featuring his ugly, stupid smirk every single day on my annoying pop-ups screen. I see nothing in PBS broadcasting - not news shows, not documentaries and not discussion or interview shows - that promote any such behaviour. But I used to see plenty of it on FUX, before we cancelled regular television. Now I don't hear the vitriol or the advertising.
Minor point of accuracy: Trump didn't raise an army. Trump can't hide a few dozen boxes of stolen documents - what makes you think he's competent to organize anything? The yahoos recruited over half a decade by Wallace, Goldwater, Gingrich et al, propagandized by Sinclair/Murdoch, armed to the teeth by the NRA lobby and empowered by the southern GOP election-fraud machine, were economically insecure, emotionally immature, chronically aggrieved and primed for someone to point them out a scapegoat and say "Throw your tantrum. I'll let you get away with it." That's all he did, and he's still trying to bribe them with the promise of pardons. The situation had been set up by the constitution, pushed to the back-burner and pulled to the front by various political factions as it served their interest from time to time. All trump did was plug into a ready-made slot at the moment their two biggest betes noires were looming on the horizon and then keep telling them what they wanted to hear. — Vera Mont

Yes, that is what happened, exactly as it happened when Hitler became popular. That is why I keep talking about education. The masses must be prepared for democracy with liberty and at the end of WWII for national defense reasons we replaced that education with education for technology. We adopted the German models of education for technology and their model for bureaucracy and slowly all our institutions are organized as the enemy of democracy and this results in reactionary politics and the big mess we are in now.

I hope before I die people understand what I am saying and organize for a return to democracy and also that demand we replace the autocratic model of Industry with a democratic model. There is hope if we have both education for democracy and democratic Institutions.

You may already be familiar with the content of the two videos below, filmed in Vancouver Canada and Kensington Philadelphia, only a few days ago! We both know there are many more examples all around this planet.
Good people like yourself, Vera Mont, and many many other people online, will never accept this f****** bullshit and that is where my strength and outrage finds help, maintenance and hope. — universeness

Thank you for spreading the awareness. Right now my sister is in a hotel with a dying man. She has put out a request for help paying for the hotel room. She would take him to a hospital but he refuses to go. This is not the first time she has stayed with a dying person,

For the last couple of years, my sister has cared for the homeless using her own money and getting money from others to cover the costs that are essential to survival. She has a Facebook page where she posts what she is dealing with and she has gotten criticism for posting some really awful things. She moved to Salem, our state capitol, so she could testify when the legislatures are dealing with a relevant problem.

My oldest Granddaughter manages a Saint Vincent de Paul campsite for homeless people. She got to this because her mother was an addict and they were homeless while I cared for her sister and brother and their father returned to prison for drugs and violence. Her mother (my daughter) is now a drug rehab. counselor and is saving lives.

I began advocating for the homeless when Reagan was president because I wanted to get homeless people out of my home. I dealt with many homeless teenagers when we were in a severe recession and when that recession ended and rentals suddenly cost a lot more, and the number of home people increased with mothers and children on the streets, I had to take action!

All of this is tied to oil and our national debt and a dramatic change in education and culture. If you all know at least enough to relate to what I am saying, I will be very thankful.

My sister confirmed I should speak with the judge, even though she pointed out that if I ignore the parking fines the city can not garnish his Social Security to pay them. We are fighting for awareness and justice. I am overwhelmed with a 5 day a week job and the extra load of dealing with the homeless problems. That is why I have not posted for a long time.

I hope that posting on TPF gives you at least a small way to vent Athena.
If I had the power, I would make decent quality housing and the basic means of survival such as food, clean water and access to full health services, a basic human right, from cradle to grave. We can argue about the lazy f***wits, who would abuse such a system, after it is fully globally established.
No profit should be allowed anywhere!!!!! until it is.

All of this is tied to oil and our national debt and a dramatic change in education and culture. If you all know at least enough to relate to what I am saying, I will be very thankful. — Athena

All this is tied to capitalism and its own relentless internal logic. I do admire your perseverance and consistency, even as believe you misattribute the cause.

All this is tied to capitalism and its own relentless internal logic. — Vera Mont

:clap:

Humankind had two very good inventions: clothing and writing, and two very bad ones: money and religion.

Humankind had two very good inventions: clothing and writing, and two very bad ones: money and religion. — Vera Mont

Why do you consider religion as a bad invention?

and two very bad ones: money and religion. — Vera Mont

Absafragginlootly!

Humankind had two very good inventions: clothing and writing, and two very bad ones: money and religion

And how, exactly does one acquire clothing and pamphlets (books being almost impossible to manufacture in the absence of a modern style economy) in the absence of the concept of money?

A resource based economy is one approach.
The Gosplan as employed in the early days of the USSR was another far better system than capitalism but unfortunately, political corruption destroyed it.
How much longer do you think paper and coin currency, will be in general circulation?
It's just numbers that go up and down in bank accounts nowadays.
There are currently many UBI projects happening as a temporary solution to the pernicious money trick that so many people have been suffering for so many centuries.
Here is a selection of UBI project discussions:






Other available reports are:
A new report that shows a basic income scheme could save the NHS tens of billions of pounds.

There are other reports that show that even a modest UBI scheme could quickly achieve the following:

Between 125,000 and 1 million cases of depressive disorders could be prevented or postponed.
Between 120,000 and 1.04 million cases of clinically significant physical health symptoms could be prevented or postponed.

A ‘modest’ basic income scheme (£75 a week, £3,900 a year) would reduce child poverty to the lowest level since comparable records began in 1961 and achieve more at significantly less cost than the anti-poverty interventions of the New Labour governments.

And how, exactly does one acquire clothing — LuckyR

Why does one need to acquire things? The earliest clothing was made by the wearer or a member of their community. The earliest writing appears on cave walls and roadside rocks, accessible to all. Could have just carried on in the same spirit of sharing.

books being almost impossible to manufacture in the absence of a modern style economy — LuckyR

Why should that be so? Canoes, bows, teepees, rugs and beautifully beaded leather footwear can be crafted without using a single gold sovereign or dollar bill. Why are books an exception?
Actually, if any humans survive The Event there won't be any economy and all their needs will probably be supplied either by their own efforts or by robots that don't require payment.

Why does one need to acquire things? The earliest clothing was made by the wearer or a member of their community. The earliest writing appears on cave walls and roadside rocks, accessible to all. Could have just carried on in the same spirit of sharing.

Why should that be so? Canoes, bows, teepees, rugs and beautifully beaded leather footwear can be crafted without using a single gold sovereign or dollar bill. Why are books an exception?

I truly don't understand your first sentance. Of course that's my Modern human bias showing, but you can't write your sentance in this thread without acquiring a phone or computer. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you don't have the skillset to make your own electronic equipment.

True, humans could have stayed in the hunter-gatherer stage or even the most primitive agricultural stage by eschewing the concept of money. Of course large cities, nations and corporations would not have been possible in the absence of credit, which would have been unthinkable without the concept of money.

Books require investment in printing presses. Publishing companies similarly require investment. Nope, handwritten pamphlets is pretty much going to be it for you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a Universal Basic Income require, you know... income? I'm interested to learn how income exists without appreciation of the concept of money. Money, of course being a mental concept, not a physical entity.

UBI helps reduce money/currency to nothing more than a means of exchange. It would remove its power to create a majority underclass of poor people and it would much reduce or remove the ability of a rich and powerful few, to control a poor majority mass. Job done!
If every person on the planet, gets all their basic needs, regardless of their ability or opportunity to 'earn' such, then the main imbalances caused by the money trick, that people have suffered from, since it's pernicious inception, will be at long last nullified. Such systems as a resource based economy, would remove paper and coin money, or a bank account balance that goes up and down, as the main mechanism of exchange of goods and services, all together, and completely nullify the power and influence of a rich nefarious elite.

I truly don't understand your first sentance. Of course that's my Modern human bias showing, but you can't write your sentance in this thread without acquiring a phone or computer. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you don't have the skillset to make your own electronic equipment. — LuckyR

I, too, live in and cope with the modern environment, like everyone else. But I'm not forced to limit my imagination to the present condition; I can learn about various pasts, speculate on alternative presents and project possible futures.

True, humans could have stayed in the hunter-gatherer stage or even the most primitive agricultural stage by eschewing the concept of money. — LuckyR

Well, they didn't. Some of them made the mistake of clumping themselves into walled cities and setting up lords and bosses to trample all over them, and whom they joined in trampling all over everybody who didn't live the way they did - in debt, alienation, fear and bondage. Modern civilization was a very costly experiment, and it has failed; at this very moment, it's tearing itself and the planet on which it stands to pieces. Pretty soon, the remnant of humanity will be divided into the billionnaires (minus their financial infrastructure) walled up in their bunkers, small bands of nomads hunting and gathering whatever they can find in the wreckage, and roving gangs of armed cannibals. None of them will have either money or the skillset to make things, so they'll have to make use of whatever hasn't burned up in some remote amazon warehouse.
And after the smoke clears... a long succession of radiation-induced mutations will eventually stabilize in a new species... or make way for the giant mutant rats and their cockroach armies.

Loved the Zeitgeist movie. The Venus project cities look clever and beautiful, but they're still cities, so I dunno about living in one. Work great on Mars, though, wouldn't they?

Well the Venus project certainly wont work on Venus anytime soon. Just toooooooo molten!
Maybe Venus used to be full of life ......... and then the early Venusions invented money and then ..... one day, BA BOOOOOOOOM! Maybe they manged to seed Earth via panspermia, just before the BA BOOOOOOOM! and ..... here we go again, so ...... yeah, Mars could well be the next attempt! But our story on Earth aint over till its over! I listened to the Sean Carroll, Ask me anything podcast for August 2023 last night. I particularly like his answer to the last question, when he said 'I think humans will survive and we will eventually populate other planets.' I'm with you Sean!!!!!!

Yeah, I wrote that story, too. It's one of the alternate scenarios.

Some of them made the mistake of clumping themselves into walled cities and setting up lords and bosses to trample all over them, and whom they joined in trampling all over everybody who didn't live the way they did - in debt, alienation, fear and bondage. Modern civilization was a very costly experiment, and it has failed; at this very moment, it's tearing itself and the planet on which it stands to pieces

Well like most opinions, it depends on whose perspective you view the scenario from.

I'm doing great and can't honestly come up with a past that puts me in an overall superior present. Of course I am not naive enough to not appreciate that (actual) history did not have those who ended up losers in the relative game of life. Chief among those being initial hunter-gatherers who converted to agriculture and those in the following millennia. But luckily (for us) past generations have already paid that initiation fee. We're free to reap the rewards of technological advances that continuing at the hunter-gatherer stage would have never realized.

No doubt other, less consequential mistakes have been made along the way. But never developing the concept of money would not in my opinion have lead to a superior current state, though I appreciate others disagree. BTW those are some mighty fine homemade shoes you're sporting there...

UBI helps reduce money/currency to nothing more than a means of exchange. It would remove its power to create a majority underclass of poor people and it would much reduce or remove the ability of a rich and powerful few, to control a poor majority mass

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that an idea superior to money can't come along or that UBI isn't a good idea. However, neither would be possible without passing through a time period where humans developed the inter-subjective concept of money.

Sure, blind alleys and paths that lead to destruction, have been and probably always will be, wandered down due to ignorance and fear and will continue to be taken by many. After 10,000 years of tears however, I hope each human generation can make better and better choices, faster and faster, before we make ourselves extinct, and this bit of the universe has to wait many many more millennia before evolution and natural selection, results in another permutation of sentient life, that might do better than the dinos, the early hominids or the humans did.

I'm doing great and can't honestly come up with a past that puts me in an overall superior present. — LuckyR

So... you happen at the moment to be somewhere that's not burning, blowing away in a tornado, flooded out, falling into a sinkhole, starving or getting bombed. Lucky by name, lucky by accident. Don't look up; it can change in a second.

Sure, blind alleys and paths that lead to destruction, have been and probably always will be, wandered down due to ignorance and fear and will continue to be taken by many. After 10,000 years of tears however, I hope each human generation can make better and better choices, faster and faster, before we make ourselves extinct, and this bit of the universe has to wait many many more millennia before evolution and natural selection, results in another permutation of sentient life, that might do better than the dinos, the early hominids or the humans did. — universeness

Oh my, that is a hard thing to think about. :heart: We are on a radically changing world with far more humans than there are resources. Around the world people flooding out of overpopulated countries with the hope of having a better life where capitalism is strong. I don't think they know about the human exploitation of capitalism. However, some of the most successful people came from overpopulated countries where competition for resources is very hard and human kindness is lacking. I am not sure that is what we want? :chin: I have an audio explanation of Andrew Carnegie and Henry Clay Frick- a curious mix of idealism and human exploitation. Please, come over and we can listen to it together and then talk about it. Would like some coffee or tea? how about finger sandwiches?

I sincerely wish we could all get together like the Athenians did and argue our different points of view and really get to know each other because the flavor of our relationships is so important to our understanding of each other. When I was young and struggling to feed my children, I thought it horribly wrong that we did not live with sharing as many primitives did. Humanity may not have survived if we did not have an instinct of caring for each other, but how did we make that work?

Since the days of Sumer there were stories of hard-working fathers and sons who expected to have everything without working for it. You make me so happy by causing me to think of such things. We so need to do this as the Athenians did. How do we have children we are proud of instead of brats like Nellie Oleson in Little House on the Parie of sulky Trump who always looks like he will throw a tantrum if he doesn't get his way? How do we prepare our children to be adults who help the tribe survive?

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that an idea superior to money can't come along or that UBI isn't a good idea. However, neither would be possible without passing through a time period where humans developed the inter-subjective concept of money. — LuckyR

Wow, what an interesting subject! I am not sure that we are not already being forced into that. Jose Arguelles wrote of the collapse of our money system in his book The Mayan Factor- Path Beyond Technology and our money systems are struggling. Our money is no longer backed by gold and backing the value of money on oil and the productivity it makes possible, is not stable! If the world stopped trading oil in dollars, the value of the American dollar would collapse and that seems to be happening. I don't want to go too far into talk of money and what resources and military might have to do with the value of the dollar but the need to contemplate "a time period where humans developed the inter-subjective concept of money" is now.

For sure, if the value of the dollar collapses, everything else may seem unimportant.

Why does one need to acquire things? The earliest clothing was made by the wearer or a member of their community.
earliest writing appears on cave walls and roadside rocks, accessible to all. Could have just carried on in the same spirit of sharing. — Vera Mont

Not when needing to tribe with the tribe that is far away and has rocks that we want. To make that trade we need a concept of money.

Due to the complexities of ancient history (ancient civilizations developing at different paces and not keeping accurate records, or having their records destroyed), and because the ancient origins of economic systems precede written history, it has not been possible to trace the true origin of the invention of money. Further, evidence in the histories[4] supports the idea that money has taken two main forms, divided into the broad categories of money of account (debits and credits on ledgers) and money of exchange (tangible media of exchange made from clay, leather, paper, bamboo, metal, etc.). — wikipedia

I gave you money to buy land and you did not pay me back, so now you are my slave for seven years because in seven years all debts are forgiven, so sayth the Lord. Only if you are not one of us, you become my slave for life and the slave of my children if you should outlive me.

Or, we must pay tax on the land alone the Nile that we are given to use, so may we help build the pharaoh's pyramid and receive our daily allotment of bread and beer as we work off the taxes we owe?

Around the world people flooding out of overpopulated countries with the hope of having a better life where capitalism is strong. I don't think they know about the human exploitation of capitalism. — Athena

Poor deluded them! Wait till they're offered only $100 per kidney.

We are on a radically changing world with far more humans than there are resources. — Athena

Balderdash! The overpopulation could easily be remedied - could have been, for decades now - if there wasn't more profit in keeping them barefoot and pregnant and dependent on the bosses.

We document the health consequences of the “Mexico City Policy” (MCP), which restricts US funding for abortion-related activities worldwide. Since its enactment in 1985,

and of course, the aid and comfort offered by successful capitalist countries to despots in less successful ones - you know that sweetheart deal, right? They give the foreign 'investors' free rein to plunder their nations' resources and the industrialists supply them weapons to keep the peons in check.

What percent of those resources are used toward the welfare of the natives who live and work on the land compared to the percent that goes into disposable crap for consumers in 'developed' countries? How much is wasted? How much becomes toxic waste?

Capitalism appropriates all the resources, exploits all the humans and then doles out a few drips and drabs of largesse (making sure their name is displayed in big gold letters) on art galleries, libraries and opera house - none of which benefits the gold miner in Africa or the South American farmer whose land was planted in coffee for export, so he can't grow food his family.... and no, he can't forage in the jungle like his ancestors did, because it's been bulldozed and burned to make room for export beef cattle.

Let's not get together to talk about Frick - some of us might have unkind words for him.