• Varnaj42
    20
    How often have we heard "if we have free will how is it that God knows in advance how we will choose?"

    The answer is not complicated.

    Imagine the familiar surroundings of our Earth. Now picture a series of concentric shells, each larger than the one below. Place the Earth at the center of this visual. The Earth is the lowest,least refined form of matter. The spiritual shells that we have imagined are less so. There are seven of these each with seven sub-divisions. The lowest spiritual shell, plane, density, dimension or whatever you might like to call it, is commonly called the ethereal. It is only just slightly less dense than the physical. It is made of ethereal matter. indeed we occasionally see into with our physical eyes. Especially when we raise our vibrations just a bit through meditation. We have a "vision". But another interesting thing about the ethereal is that it is an exact duplicate of what exists in the physical. This is the reason when we have an out of body experience we see things almost normally with just slight differences such as enhanced hearing or vision and ability to move about. And each plane above the ethereal is more refined than the one below. And each experiences the flow of time but slower and slower as we ascend.

    But there is more.

    Each of the seven spiritual planes which are a vital and essential part of the Earth (system) also experience the flow of time. This is because they do have dimension. The Earth could not exist without theme. These are the heavens that we go to after death. The curious thing is that time slows as compared to here on Earth as we ascend. If we were to shift up to the ethereal and if we had the means to compare we would see that one Earth hour is about 45 minutes now.

    This effect continues as we ascend, plane to plane. Ever heard of seventh heaven? This is the highest of the Earth's planes. This is the realm of the spiritual head of our system the guide to the world, the Christ. It is also known by Buddhists as the storied Land of the Golden Light. Here time is very slow indeed.

    But this is not the end.

    God, the creator, is not "of" our solar system at all. God remains on the highest of planes that exist. This is not a part of the created spiritual and physical universe. Here there is no dimension therefore no flow of time at all. This is the answer to the question.

    The entirety of the created universe both spiritual and physical represent the body of manifestation of the Creator. This is the reason that we sometimes hear "we have our life in or through God". This is literally true.

    We live in a continually flowing time. We think it terms of before and after. God does not. From God's perspective all simply "is". This means that God is aware of all, everything, every event, every thought that exists below but perceives it all in the present. Have we heard the quote "before Abraham was, I am"? This is the reason for the odd seeming idea expressed in this sentence. God simply "is".

    The above is the reason we can choose but God already knows. Yes. We do have free will.

    We have trouble understanding the above only because our minds are limited. Human minds are designed to function in the lower spiritual and the physical planes only. But the time flow dynamic is key to understanding the question.
  • T Clark
    13.9k
    You won't find a receptive audience for religious dogma here on the forum. Most of the members are atheists or at least non-religious. Perhaps it would help a bit if you provided a source or context for your beliefs rather than just proclaiming them as fact.
  • Vera Mont
    4.3k
    ...and Earth is at the center...
  • 180 Proof
    15.4k
    Either there is no "free will" or there is no "God" or there is neither; therefore, there is no problem of reconciling "free will" with "God".
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    13.2k
    How often have we heard "if we have free will how is it that God knows in advance how we will choose?"Varnaj42

    So the short answer is that in the levels close to God, the beings move faster, or time moves slower. These angel beings are sort of like computers then, what takes a human years to do, they can do in a nano second. Therefore they are always one step (or a billion steps) ahead of us. As soon as we start to decide, as time passes, they've already seen the whole decision. And God is even at a higher level, so fast (or time so slow), that time doesn't even pass for God. Then God sees all time, all at once.
  • Varnaj42
    20
    It is analogous to the speed of sound. Sound travels faster through solid matter and slower in the upper atmosphere and not at all in space.

    Time is faster here on Earth and slows as we ascend through the heavens. I would say do not think this means angels move faster. Here is a better statement.

    Eternity is not the endless progression of time. Eternity is a state of being wherein there is no time at all. This condition exists only in the highest of the spiritual planes, those that existed before the creation. This... is where we find God. God is timeless because God's realm is free of time.
  • wonderer1
    2.2k
    So the short answer is that in the levels close to God, the beings move faster, or time moves slower. These angel beings are sort of like computers then, what takes a human years to do, they can do in a nano second. Therefore they are always one step (or a billion steps) ahead of us. As soon as we start to decide, as time passes, they've already seen the whole decision. And God is even at a higher level, so fast (or time so slow), that time doesn't even pass for God. Then God sees all time, all at once.


    I'm not seeing how that provides an answer to how free will is compatible with such a scenario.
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    13.2k
    Time is faster here on Earth and slows as we ascend through the heavens. I would say do not think this means angels move fasterVarnaj42

    To understand that angels must move faster, you need to consider the relative nature of motions in relation to your premise that time is slower at the higher levels of heaven.

    Suppose we take an earthly one hour time period. Imagine a human being is driving (moving) 100 km in that one hour time period. Now, in the higher level, time is moving much slower, so let's suppose that the same hour that passes on earth, feels like a full day in the higher level. (Pay attention to the use of "feels like", because this is the only way that we have to relate a faster time to a slower time, with how the passage of time "feels" to an experiencing subject.) So within that full day, there is what feels like 24 hour for that high level angel to act, and it could move 100km in each of those hours, and have the very same feeling of moving as the human being.

    Therefore, relative to one's own level of time passage, the angel and the human being are both moving at 100 km/hr. However, since the angel's passage of time is slower than the human being's passage of time, the angel in its temporal realm has moved 2400 km when the human being in its temporal realm has moved only 100km. So while the angel and human experience the exact same movement, 100km/hr., when "hr." is related to one's own level of temporal passage, since the temporal passage of the angel is slower than that of the human, the angel moves a lot further in that one hour.

    I'm not seeing how that provides an answer to how free will is compatible with such a scenario.wonderer1

    The question was how is free will compatible with the all-knowing God of this scenario. The answer is that the all-knowing God in this scenario is completely outside the passage of time. Free will is something which occurs within the passing of time, it is a temporal phenomenon. So as time passes, the human being may choose from possibilities which are available due to the reality of spatial temporal existence. The angel, being at a higher level with slower time passing, is more capable of making decisions, because what feels like a split-second-decision to us, might feel like an hour for the angel. God encompasses all eternity, therefore He already knows the outcome of the decision.

    Notice though, that such a God is incapable of interacting in the human level, because that God cannot have any temporal movement. This is known as the interaction problem. However, the angels in this scenario can interact, and this is why I am talking to Varnaj about the activities of the angels.
  • Varnaj42
    20


    I find no disagreement with your statement. It's easier to understand when one injects relativity into the discussion but that can work both ways. In any case the single most important thing is to have a more realistic understand of what, exactly, eternity is. Most folks do not.
  • 180 Proof
    15.4k
    Either there is no "free will" or there is no "God" or there is neither; therefore, there is no problem of reconciling "free will" with "God".180 Proof
    What? But suppose there is both "free will" and "God"? Then "God" allows time to branch-off human time (i.e. futurity) from "His" eternity whenever we act – our gate infinitely widens but for us "His" narrow gate becomes infinitesmal. :naughty:
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