I voted for UKIP. I appreciate the bait and switch though ;)

are you inbred?

Inbred? Is that supposed to be something disgusting?

Quite.

What's your issue with UKIP though? Their policies are exactly what Britain needs.

I wish a UK labor person would provide a good "25 words or less" explanation what Corbyn does or does not stand for (might take 25 pages or more) and why there is so much disaffection directed his way -- at least, that's the impression I get from the Guardian.

are they?

are they? — JJJJS

No, and fortunately the vast majority of us recognise that.

Our Overton window is sufficiently far to the right that Corbyn looks relatively radical compared to the norm. There's also a great deal of media bias against him, which isn't to say he's without fault. I can dig up the studies if you're willing to wait a day or so when I'm not at work.

UKIP and their neoliberal policies are the last thing we need.

>:O I'm fucking joking. I'd never vote UKIP. If I was honest, I'd have gone for Lib Dems.

I'd have voted for them if the 'surge' some had predicted had materialised, but it hasn't if the polls are accurate to any degree. My vote would be wasted on the lib dems as my area has been conservative since about 1945 and only labour have a realistic chance of beating them. FPTP is wonderful.

I'm fucking joking. I'd never vote UKIP. If I was honest, I'd have gone for Lib Dems. — Agustino

I did wonder, as I remember you saying that, but I wouldn't put it past you. :D

Yeah I just did it because I know JJJJS is a brainwashed Labor-lover who would be pissed off by UKIP support (just look at the thread title, and compare to the question asked inside at the poll - that justifies why Labor gets such high %s here).

For the many, not the few. Jez we can! Jez we can! Jez we can!

Sorry, just had to let that out.

Corbyn is hated because he is envied. He is just like you were when you were a young socialist. Now you are old and disillusioned and no longer a socialist. And all the young socialists are looking up to Corbyn. And you feel aged and cynical and a wee bit ukippy. And it's not fair.

you're being bitchy as fuck mate

BC. I'm not a labourite or Corbynite. But believe I see his appeal and dis-appeal. He's quite an old-fashioned socialist, genuinely decent bloke, like all such in politics has attack dogs (his side I mean) lurking in the shadows. Agin: he's against the New Labour project, the right of Labour believe he's unelectable and that in some possible world they are. My Green angle: no perspective on climate change or renewables, still infatuated with economic growth.

so you're going to vote for that bloke with two slugs on his face and a party with no chance of unseating the conservatives?

The trouble is a lot of us in the UK are in safe seats, so our votes are irrelevant to the result. My whole life I've been in safe Conservative seats, so all I can do is vote appropriate to my ideology and my vote will be counted in analysis of the popular vote, which is not likely to change anything.

There does seem to be a surge developing behind Corbyn at the moment. But I expect the conservatives will win though because sufficient of the grey vote see Corbyn as an old fashioned Trotskyite, hence unelectable and won't budge from that view. Combined with the sentiment that Theresa May will pull us through the Brexit negotiations unscathed. I am critical of both these sentiments, but I know the people who hold them will not change their view even when pinned down. Our only hope is if the young suddenly start turning out to vote.

Indeed. Hopefully the vast majority aren't as cynical and pointless as people like agustino

as cynical and pointless as people like agustino — JJJJS

>:O >:O >:O

I would have voted for Trump, so what can you expect from me.

The trouble is a lot of us in the UK are in safe seats, so our votes are irrelevant to the result. My whole life I've been in safe Conservative seats, so all I can do is vote appropriate to my ideology and my vote will be counted in analysis of the popular vote, which is not likely to change anything. — Punshhh

I think this thesis is well disproved by the overwhelming influence of UKIP despite their abysmal showing in elections. Rather, it is the folks that always vote the same way and thus create safe seats that have no influence. Things change when people change, and Conservatives are hyper sensitive to who is slicing a few votes off their majorities, and who is dividing 'their' votes in the places they lose.

Likewise, the more people vote green, the more the other parties will adopt green policies, even if the greens get no seats, because those are the votes they need to get next time.

so what can you expect from me

Just a minute wastage of time while scrolling to actual interesting posts

YOu didn't read what I said very carefully. I'm going to vote Green. As I always do. I decided a while ago I was going to vote for what I believed in, and not be swayed by all this stuff about 'keeping X out'.

I think this thesis is well disproved by the overwhelming influence of UKIP despite their abysmal showing in elections. Rather, it is the folks that always vote the same way and thus create safe seats that have no influence. Things change when people change, and Conservatives are hyper sensitive to who is slicing a few votes off their majorities, and who is dividing 'their' votes in the places they lose.

Yes there probably is something in what you say. Although I think that UKIP is an exception to the rule. The issue of Europe has resulted in a groundswell of opinion among the population since we entered the common market in 1973. Something which would become expressed one way or the other. However in the case of UKIP, it was essentially a splinter group of the Conservatives which divisively influenced their policies and resulted in the referendum itself.

Likewise, the more people vote green, the more the other parties will adopt green policies, even if the greens get no seats, because those are the votes they need to get next time.

The Greens are more inline with the rule, I can see no evidence of the three main parties adopting green policies. Indeed the conservatives did try to court some green voters during the early years of the 21st century. However they didn't alter their policies in that direction, while claiming they were by claiming their actions (so called green initiative) to reduce CO2 production were a Green minded issue, which they weren't. Since the Credit Crunch they have been ditching them wherever they get the opportunity and green issues are well off the agenda at the moment. Despite the swelling of Green supporters over the last few years. I have voted Green for a long time now anyway, as I want to encourage our local Green candidate to continue standing.

The Greens are more inline with the rule, I can see no evidence of the three main parties adopting green policies. Indeed the conservatives did try to court some green voters during the early years of the 21st century. — Punshhh

Well the tories would like to encourage the greens as a way of splitting the left-wing vote. It is when the greens start to steal tory votes that they will get on board. I suggest the slogan," Conservation is the real conservatism". ;)

I voted for Lib Dems here, but I won't vote in the real thing.

why not?

Won't make a difference, so it'd be a waste of my time.

the more people vote green, the more the other parties will adopt green policies, even if the greens get no seats, because those are the votes they need to get next time.

this makes sense now