Has the economic anarchy of capitalism produced the current status quo of 2/3rds of the world living below the poverty line? — an-salad
Can a centrally planned economy democratically and logically distribute resources, wealth, and labour of the world? — an-salad
Do all historically progressive tasks -such as the end of war and poverty- depend on the overcoming of the barriers erected by the profit system, the division of the world into rival and competing nation states and private ownership of the means of production? — an-salad
Aren’t all inventors both destructive and constructive? Isnt this true of knowledge in general? — Joshs
I'm inclined to say that humanity's troubles are not caused by any particular human invention so much as the fact that humans keep coming up with destructive inventions. — Vera Mont
I suppose one could find a constructive use for mace and the guillotine, but I'm hard-put to imagine what that is. My contention was that it's not one single invention [capital] that brings all the trouble, but the fact that we can't stop corrupting our inventions. — Vera Mont
There were wars long before capitalism, long before the means of production was anything more than an old guy chipping arrowheads on a big rock. People have always fought over land, water, hunting rights, minerals, jealousy, anger, revenge and power. — Vera Mont
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(10)00564-6The true hallmark of lion sociality is their joint defense of a territory (Figure 1). Karen McComb measured the responses of females to recorded roars of unfamiliar females. A roar is a territorial display, and the females responded according to the odds: if a lone female heard the roar of a single female, she recruited distant pridemates, but a group of three females immediately approached the loudspeaker. When exposed to a roaring trio, real trios again recruited help, while quintets quickly approached. The real females moved to oust the invaders as long as they outnumbered the strangers by at least two individuals. Jon Grinnell found a similar sense of ‘numeracy’ in males, but they sometimes approached even when outnumbered three to one — probably because males have such a brief opportunity to father offspring and must protect their pride at all costs.
Has the economic anarchy of capitalism produced the current status quo of 2/3rds of the world living below the poverty line?
one could find a constructive use for mace and the guillotine, but I'm hard-put to imagine what that is — Vera Mont
Every human being on the planet. We punish one another enough for perceived immorality; the least we can do is acknowledge one another's moral compass.Who’s to say what constitutes corruption? — Joshs
Not to me.....How to draw thr moral lines is far from clear.
No, that's backward. Things are innovated by one person and corrupted by another. You cannot corrupt that which does not yet exist....One person’s corruption is another’s innovation.... — Joshs
So can I, but they're rarely the class that gets tumbrilled up to the scaffold. Anyhow, my secret desire for the destruction of someone or something I dislike does not turn it into construction.Now, as for severing heads, there is an abundance of heads which, severed from their bodies, would have beneficial effects on society. I can think of a few dozen right off. — BC
Has the economic anarchy of capitalism produced the current status quo of 2/3rds of the world living below the poverty line? — an-salad
Creating a global system which is more equitable and fair for all stakeholders must be possible. Central control, distributed control, localised control, all of the above, who cares? Probably trial and error and trying again until we get something that works, will continue to be the methodology. What is needed, is a majority will to create and maintain a global, secular, humanist, democratic, socialist system.Can a centrally planned economy democratically and logically distribute resources, wealth, and labour of the world? — an-salad
Do all historically progressive tasks -such as the end of war and poverty- depend on the overcoming of the barriers erected by the profit system, the division of the world into rival and competing nation states and private ownership of the means of production? — an-salad
Who’s to say what constitutes corruption?
— Joshs
Every human being on the planet. We punish one another enough for perceived immorality; the least we can do is acknowledge one another's moral compass.
....How to draw thr moral lines is far from clear.
Not to me.
...One person’s corruption is another’s innovation....
— Joshs
No, that's backward. Things are innovated by one person and corrupted by another. You cannot corrupt that which does not yet exist — Vera Mont
Constructionist thought militates against the claims to ethical foundations implicit in much identity politics - that higher ground from which others can so confidently be condemned as inhumane, self-serving, prejudiced, and unjust. Constructionist thought painfully reminds us that we have no transcendent rationale upon which to rest such accusations, and that our sense of moral indignation is itself a product of historically and culturally situated traditions. And the constructionist intones, is it not possible that those we excoriate are but living also within traditions that are, for them, suffused with a sense of ethical primacy? As we find, then, social constructionism is a two edged sword in the political arena, potentially as damaging to the wielding hand as to the opposition.
Has the economic anarchy of capitalism produced the current status quo of 2/3rds of the world living below the poverty line? — an-salad
Probably because h. sapiens are about a chromosome and a half away from p. troglodytes (chimpanzees).I would ask simple questions:
1. Why does one human wish to be more powerful and have more wealth than any other? — universeness
The history of h. sapiens' dominance hierarchies (i.e. civilizations, sovereigns / states, cults-communes) certainly suggests such a sociobiological "connection".Are such drives/motivations, 100% connected to our 'survival of the fittest, jungle rules, beginnings?'
In practice – dynastic-oligarchical dominance hierarchy.If so, then what does the notion of 'civilisation,' really mean to humans?
No. Not under conditions (status quo) of political-economic scarcity.2. Do you think 8 billion humans, fully co-operating, could achieve more than 8 billion humans competing under the control of an elite global few?
We haven't yet in over half a century. It's certainly not in the interest of shareholders who profit from – dominate by – exploiting natural and/or man-made / strategic scarcities.3. Can the human species find common cause, when we consider the scale of the universe and the resources available within it?
Eventually 'survival of the elitest' (millions, not billions) in scattered networks (sprawls) of AI-automated enclaves. Think: Ayn Randian dystopias à la Judge Dredd or Blade Runner (without Replicants).4. Consider unfettered capitalism in permanent action, forever unchallenged, what would you predict,
would be the main result of such a permanent global system, for our species?
Constructionist thought painfully reminds us that we have no transcendent rationale upon which to rest such accusations, and that our sense of moral indignation is itself a product of historically and culturally situated traditions.
And the constructionist intones, is it not possible that those we excoriate are but living also within traditions that are, for them, suffused with a sense of ethical primacy?
As we find, then, social constructionism is a two edged sword in the political arena, potentially as damaging to the wielding hand as to the opposition.
Has the economic anarchy of capitalism produced the current status quo of 2/3rds of the world living below the poverty line? — an-salad
Exactly. As the West hasn't seen such rapid growth, we tend to miss just what a huge transformation has happened in China, the Far East and is happening in India. It's a fantastic development that people that has really faced large scale famine (and did experience a famine of 15 to 55 million deaths in 1959-1961) has prospered so much. All thanks to Chinese Marxism! :wink:Global inequality has been falling since the 90s and has fallen at a faster rate since 2019. But at the same time, the share of wealth held by the top 1% has also been steadily increasing. Both phenomena seem set to continue. — Count Timothy von Icarus
The hope would be, that after Asia, the economic growth would finally start in Africa. Yes, it starts with sweatshops and cheap labour, but hopefully similar development as in Asia would happen there too. Yet there are many problems that can make it not happen.Although, I do wonder if the shift of population growth towards Sub-Saharan Africa might effect this trend in the long term. — Count Timothy von Icarus
As do direct investments work. With Foreign aid I'm not so sure: it is basically drug addiction that doesn't make the countries better. In fact the now collapsed Republic of Afghanistan is a perfect example of just pouring money creates: rampant corruption and state that collapses. Before the collapse, 43% of the GDP of Afghanistan came from foreign aid. About 75% of public spending was funded by foreign aid grants. That is totally reckless, basically from the West that was responsible of this. Yet when you look at the countries that have really developed, really went from the verge of famine to an industrialized country, it hasn't happened because of foreign aid. Foreign markets, yes, but not aid.Remittances dwarf all foreign aid; people send a LOT of money back when they migrate away. — Count Timothy von Icarus
I'm neither a political Capitalist nor a political Socialist. Instead, I'm apolitical, and I happen to live in a regulated mixed economy, where my status is far above the world poverty line. My retirement Uber gig is "platform capitalism", where the workers are free to come & go, but their income remains near the bottom of the U.S. economic pyramid (not counting the unemployed)*1. At the same time, I benefit from socialist medicine (VA) because I gave four years of my life defending my less-than-perfect country. Although my income is near the bottom of the US scale, I don't consider myself impoverished, compared to the rest of the world --- much of which doesn't benefit from the political stability and moderation of a mixed economy*2.Has the economic anarchy of capitalism produced the current status quo of 2/3rds of the world living below the poverty line? — an-salad
Of course, you have the best example of Marxism-Leninism in the example of East-Germany and how it compared to West-Germany. It didn't experience famine and didn't experience massive purges, even if it had a large security state. Germans really showed just where you could make of Marxist-Leninist socialism. And we really have to remember that the most successful version of socialism has been with social-democracy, which is still quite alive an kicking in the Western World. Social Democrats have ruled many Western countries and are and inherent part of Western democracy just as are conservatives.Point being, Russia and China are bad examples because they were absolute basket cases before communism and in many ways improved despite communism, while it's unclear that any system could have avoided their problems. — Count Timothy von Icarus
And we really have to remember that the most successful version of socialism has been with social-democracy, which is still quite alive an kicking in the Western World. Social Democrats have ruled many Western countries and are and inherent part of Western democracy just as are conservatives.
Even Christianity has had this with it's Crusades, which really is a bizarre feat to pull out from the teachings of Jesus Christ, and all those time people wanted to build "The New Jerusalem".
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