Whether the 5000 missles alone would have raised security concerns high enough to necessitate the current invasion, I'm not sure. — Hanover

You're not? You're not sure 5000 missiles warrants military action, but you're sure rape does? I think you're just messing with me.

In any event, my statement that this invasion has much to do with the real security issue that needed to be resolved when the women were raped was hardly ridiculous. — Hanover

The rapes were cotemporaneous with the 5000 missiles, that's true. The rapes are not the reason Israel invaded Gaza, though. The rapes are the thing that upset you the most. They're the reason you cheer on the invasion and sanction the attack on civilian men, women, and children. Right?

The rapes were cotemporaneous with the 5000 missiles, that's true. The rapes are not the reason Israel invaded Gaza, though. The rapes are the thing that upset you the most. They're the reason you cheer on the invasion and sanction the attack on civilian men, women, and children. Right? — frank

The rapes were the result of their actually sending soldiers over and invading the country. It established a much higher risk to personal safety of the citizens than did the missles. It brought the battle to an entirely different level, just as when the Israeli boots hit the Gaza siol.

That you think I cheer or whatever you're saying is just your incorrect interpretation of my position in order to fit your narrative that this has to do with vengence. It doesn't.

@Hanover@frank @BitconnectCarlos

Please stop equating the state of Israel with the Jewish people. All that pattern of argument does is invite prejudice. Now you're arguing in a way that sounds like Jews Bad vs Jews Good. Be more careful or posts will start disappearing.

Edit: that goes especially for you @Vaskane, be careful.

Please stop equating the state of Israel with the Jewish people. All that pattern of argument does is invite prejudice. Now you're arguing in a way that sounds like Jews Bad vs Jews Good. Be more careful or posts will start disappearing. — fdrake

I have no idea what you're talking about. We were talking about human shields.

What's that? I can't hear you over the sound of Noam Chomsky calling Israel a Jewish supremacist state. Obviously not an ethical issue at all. — Vaskane

I'm not speaking as a partisan in this debate, I'm just modding it in the forum.

There's a sense in which Israel can be accused of being a Jewish supremacist state, which does not entail that the Jews as a collective perpetrate those (alleged) acts of supremacy.

"The Jewish people are violent" or "The Jewish people are peaceful" - these are racial stereotypes.
"The state of Israel is violent" or "The state of Israel is peaceful" - those are judgements of a state's actions, and not prejudiced without further qualification.
"The Jewish people support Jewish supremacy" - borderline antisemitism, it's at best a racial stereotype.
"The state of Israel supports Jewish supremacy" - in need of qualification, but it can be said without bigotry and with reasonable justification.

If you're unable to see the difference between these senses, there isn't too much I can do to help you. I'm willing to read what you're saying charitably - like you're talking about the state of Israel, rather than the Jewish people, and what's happening in this thread is the usual equation of the state of Israel with the Jewish people that occurs... Just be careful around it alright.

That also goes for you @BitconnectCarlos

It is quite an interesting time we live in, in which wars are fought on the premise of not killing innocents. In all of history, the only reason more soldiers were killed instead of innocents in the heat of battle was due to soldiers being more of a threat. But wars were generally about going into a land, kill as much as you can, loot their supplies and install your own power. Today, every nation has some kind of trade interest in another and any attempt at conducting war by the old strategy is met with such a global ostracization that you will cripple your own economy and the living standards of your country. You will also, by your actions, create a moral perspective and prejudice against your nation and your people in a way that can last for years.

Look at Russia and look at how much shit China got by even intel rumors of invading Taiwan. And it has created a situation in which Russians will be treated with suspicion for maybe decades.

So the question then becomes, how can you win a war by killing civilians if the amount of collateral damage, and especially if your troops kill civilians on purpose reaches such high numbers that the entire world turns against you?

There's a positive aspect to this, and it's a political and economical deterrent. You could argue that a nation like Russia will manage anyway, but the crippled culture and hate against them could drain its potency in the future. Most nations benefit from exchange of trade and experts and if they have little to none left and no new people immigrating, that will set them back on the technological and cultural stage more and more.

So today, no nation really benefits from invading and killing everyone. It's a political death sentence.

"The Jewish people are violent" or "The Jewish people are peaceful" - these are racial stereotypes. — fdrake

How about "the Jewish people are learned" is that also a stereotype or just a cultural observation? Are we allowed to comment on Jewish culture or is that stereotype? If we can comment on Jewish culture and Jewish cultural influences, then why not on Jewish people?

I didn't say Jews weren't aggressive. I said they aren't murderous and this view will bear out if we look to homicide rates in Jewish communities. We can also look to prison population numbers.

↪BitconnectCarlos All I said was I only started even using the term Jews when I started talking with you about Jews, in reply to you saying they're not murderous people. Though lets not get into statistical fallacies with prison population numbers, oh so many of them especially in a prejudicial system. — Vaskane

How about "the Jewish people are learned" is that also a stereotype or just a cultural observation? Are we allowed to comment on Jewish culture or is that stereotype? If we can comment on Jewish culture and Jewish cultural influences, then why not on Jewish people? — BitconnectCarlos

That is the dynamic between you two that I'm modding, yes. Keep your chat to the state of Israel. Keep inferences about the Jewish people out of it.

Keep your chat to the state of Israel. Keep inferences about the Jewish people out of it. — fdrake

Odd mod.

Odd mod. — BC

You think that's odd? @Hanover made me stop talking to him.