Based on your reading of Feldman Barrett, I wonder about the reductive aspects of emotions. They may be broken down to the physiological basics or related to aspects of motivational ideas and goals. This tension is an underlying aspect of the nature of emotional experience, raising questions about the dichotomy of values, as aspects which go beyond conceptual ideas.
.

It could be asked, what are senses exactly? They may be the physiological aspects of emotion and may go beyond the basic five senses of perception. I wonder to what extent does emotion occur as arising from sensory experiences or preceding it.Here, it may involve feedback loops, which demonstrate the complexity of physicalism and valued ideas. The generation of values may be a critical aspect the core development of emotions.

Your post makes many important points. What I find important in what you are saying is in relation to subjectivity. The interplay between sensory experiences and basic ideas is an essential aspect of human understanding.

The discrepancies in values between sensory experiences in its many forms, in contrast to ideas and ideals may be an ongoing development of philosophical understanding.

However, this is a focus on the inner aspects of experience of emotions, which may be a little different from emotional expression. Human beings may edit emotions into what is acceptable. That may be fine in some ways, but challengable when emotions deviate from the norm. One aspect of this, especially in relation to the formation of values, may involve an underlying judgmental understanding of emotions. This may problematic when emotions are cultivated according to ideals.

“Jack Cummins


“ I think that one of the reasons why I have raised the topic is about the potential for control of the passions. Nevertheless, it may be complicated in the sense of the interplay between the expression of emotion and control. This may be where it becomes a hard problem, relating to the hard problem of consciousness, especially the chemical-electrical processes. In relation to yogic practices, one important area may be to what extent does will , as an aspect of motivation, guide the processes of emotion?

This involves different area of understanding of emotions and living with them in life experience. In thinking of adepts, I wonder to what extent can the ideas of emotion, including its variable expression and suppression, may be intrinsic aspects of the ongoing evolutionary processes, for human beings in particular. The critical philosophy issues here is the possible ways in which emotions, going back to the basic routes of sensory experiences are based on gut reactions or ideas of emotions, as desirable or undesirable aspects of the inner experiences of human consciousness?“


-Jack Cummins
The

The thought of the differences between the ontic and ontological , description which is sought after, as an algorithmic sign by as far as control emotions goes, axiomatically reactive to the way conscious derivations of structural changes evolve alongside the progression of conscious development from in it’s utilized self toward it’s outer archaic expression of the original participation mystique (Levi Strauss) .

As consciousness returns to the original integration into itself, the above mentioned left side of the brain is akin to yogic meditations use of the integrated continuum

I left out the question of the ‘will’
As far as the boundary with eastern philosophy goes, the right side of the brain does link with the left through the neurons, that inter penetration is I believe variably pushed toward the more indiscriminate content, so that the masculine(right side) develop more powered regulation over the more indiscernible left (feminine side of the brain.

That such will-fullness, over the more chaotic indiscernible left hemisphere, is a function of the content that is, the ability to gain power to will, through the presence of the visualized plan to act as if through a directorial, , assumption of a masculine role taken.

Just an afterthought

Personal perspective, when one is considering the emotions of organisms, one needs to realize that all organisms are reactive creatures. The physical world and the cosmos are causes to all organisms. The reactions of those organisms is in turn cause to the physical world, and the cosmos. It's all one system. Emotions more than thought, hardwire in the organism's measures and meanings of all things relative to the given organism. Our emotions are about the physical world relative to our security and well-being. Thoughts and feelings alter continuously the chemistries of our body relative to the organisms experiences. Organism is the source of all meanings through experience and projection applies its meanings and emotions to what it then calls its apparent reality. Psychology wants to treat the thoughts and feelings of the individual, focusing entirely on the organism's thoughts and feelings, and little to nothing about how the physical world plays the organism like a violin. The tunes it plays can be life supporting or negative, undermining the vitality of life. Perhaps, just perhaps one could be mentally ill in one environmental context, and healthy within an entirely different environmental context, depending on the tune being played by the given environment. As the individual matures it becomes the tune that particular environment has been playing upon it, and becomes a one-trick pony, repetition repetition, and a life story is heard, and heard only by the individual organism. The old saying context defines could not be truer, one's innate nature is shaped, nurtured or destroyed by context, or possibly misshaping it into a monstrosity unfit for survival. Listen to the music of the world, the total context of an adaptive/reactive organism, perhaps it needs re-tuning.

Someone just said some very kind things to me and my whole body reacted with joy and hope. I am thinking if I grew up with such words I would be a different person. I think many of us have had destructive relationships. We may have been loved but perhaps the persons loving us were also damaged people who could not be positive and inspirational. Perhaps they too were damaged in bad relationships or something like a national economic crash or war. So here we are damaged human beings doing our best but we may lack the joy and hope that makes life feel so good and makes us attractive to others, which increases the chances of more people telling us how good we are.

Being a damaged person is unattractive so it is important we seek healing. For many, a church is the answer. Knowing how thoughts work, it is easy to see how God works, but unfortunately, the mythology that goes with that God is not acceptable to everyone. However, when we understand the power of thought we can apply it and move ourselves in the direction of healing. We can seek out people who are joyful and uplifting. We can get information from books, but it is better when it is a positive personal experience because emotions are a physical reaction, not just cerebral.

Regarding the quote, it immediately reminded me of Greek philosophy and debates. They talked about how being moral is a balance, not extremes that lead to problems as the quote explains. Hebrews and Greeks used stories to teach virtues, ethics, and morality. Ancient civilizations created gods to raise the consciousness of newly discovered concepts.

My journey to healing began with Greek gods and philosophy when I had to become my own hero, so I think there is much to talk about in your thread.

Yes, will is important as there is a source of motivation and this includes emotion and intuition. Freud spoke of the life and death instincts, as Eros and Thanatos and such a perspective is bound up with emotions and the complex dynamics of mental processes, including both conscious and subconscious aspects. Will may be unconscious and related to the basics of bodily functioning, such as in the psychosomatic nature of illness and health.

I agree that emotions are hardwired and have a determining aspect. It does relate to issues of free will, although I am inclined to think that humans can achieve some autonomy of not being completely dictated by emotions. But it is tricky and most of the time we controlled by emotions, and being able to break through the hardwiring may be rare exceptions. It may be about higher emotions overriding the lower ones.

[A]ll organisms are reactive creatures. The physical world and the cosmos are causes to all organisms. The reactions of those organisms is in turn cause to the physical world, and the cosmos. It's all one system. Emotions more than thought, hardwire in the organism's measures and meanings of all things relative to the given organism. Our emotions are about the physical world relative to our security and well-being. Thoughts and feelings alter continuously the chemistries of our body relative to the organisms experiences. Organism is the source of all meanings through experience and projection [expectation, belief] applies its meanings and emotions to what it then calls its apparent reality. — boagie

:up: Well said.

Reminds me mostly of the ataraxia teachings of Epicureans and Stoics (which, no doubt, influenced Montaigne, Spinoza, et al).

Psychology wants to treat the thoughts and feelings of the individual, focusing entirely on the organism's thoughts and feelings, and little to nothing about how the physical world plays the organism like a violin. The tunes it plays can be life supporting or negative, undermining the vitality of life.

:up: :up:

Yes, I call this homuncular psychology "The Cartesian Fallacy". In contrast, Nietzsche (& Merleau-Ponty), for instance, focus on the interplay of the body and culture.

It's good to interact with you again. It definitely seems that emotions have immense power. I know that I get fairly instant reactions to life events. They seem to determine the quality and nature of experience itself. I even find that I see differently and hear differently according to mood. Music seems to sound differently if I am sad or happy.

Childhood experiences probably play an extremely significant role in forming the core frames of emotions. There does appear to be a link between childhood trauma and mental illness, including PTSD and many other issues. Stress at all times is a major trigger for becoming mental ill, but the first years may be at the core of emotional life and defense mechanisms. It is likely to be linked to the plasticity of the brain.

With healing, there are so many approaches. Some people found it in religion and this may go back to the shamanic aspects of the origins of religion. So much was projected outside onto the gods. In secular society, so much understanding is based on understanding of biochemistry. Of course, the neurochemical aspects are important, such as Serotonin, but, often, chemical treatment alone is often one dimensional. It can be complimented by the talking therapies and the creative arts. The arts therapies make this connection and the arts may involve a form of transformation. Shamanism and religious experiences were a means of this for the ancient people. A lot of people who are not religious transform emotional suffering into healing for oneself and others, like the role of the shaman, often understood as the 'wounded healer. '

Childhood experiences probably play an extremely significant role in forming the core frames of emotions. There does appear to be a link between childhood trauma and mental illness, including PTSD and many other issues. Stress at all times is a major trigger for becoming mental ill, but the first years may be at the core of emotional life and defense mechanisms. It is likely to be linked to the plasticity of the brain.

With healing, there are so many approaches. Some people found it in religion and this may go back to the shamanic aspects of the origins of religion. So much was projected outside onto the gods. In secular society, so much understanding is based on understanding of biochemistry. Of course, the neurochemical aspects are important, such as Serotonin, but, often, chemical treatment alone is often one dimensional. It can be complimented by the talking therapies and the creative arts. The arts therapies make this connection and the arts may involve a form of transformation. Shamanism and religious experiences were a means of this for the ancient people. A lot of people who are not religious transform emotional suffering into healing for oneself and others, like the role of the shaman, often understood as the 'wounded healer. ' — Jack Cummins

Thanks for that. :up:

Sometimes I wonder if (core aspects of) our society are just insane (meaning unfit and unhealthy for humans, to be simple and blunt).

As an analogy, in a dishware factory a broken mold for making cups will produce only broken cups.

This is opposed to the usual view that society has its flaws, but an individual must conform to society as much as possible, learn the game, compete, and win.
Then success / happiness follow.

Some may call it ‘sour grapes’ but even if that’s somewhat true, sour grapes make good wine. :yum:

It's good to interact with you again. It definitely seems that emotions have immense power. I know that I get fairly instant reactions to life events. They seem to determine the quality and nature of experience itself. I even find that I see differently and hear differently according to mood. Music seems to sound differently if I am sad or happy. — Jack Cummins

That is line with what Plato said is important about education. Education for technology lacks the wisdom of liberal education that has been passed down since Plato's time until the atomic bomb and throwing out liberal education in favor of a focus on technology.

Zeus was afraid that once we had the technology of fire we would discover all technologies and rival the gods. In his great wisdom, he gave Pandora a box full of miseries to slow down our development and delay that day when think we no longer need the gods. Plato explains the importance of music and taking care of our emotions because only when we feel good do we have good judgment. It is true for everyone, our feelings strongly influence our judgment and our health! We are unwise to focus on technology instead of our soul and the essence of being human. That leads to bad judgment and destruction.

Plato said that “music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything”.

Childhood experiences probably play an extremely significant role in forming the core frames of emotions. There does appear to be a link between childhood trauma and mental illness, including PTSD and many other issues. Stress at all times is a major trigger for becoming mental ill, but the first years may be at the core of emotional life and defense mechanisms. It is likely to be linked to the plasticity of the brain. — Jack Cummins

I am sure that is true and that is why I object to Neitzsche's notion of examining ourselves. Socrates said, “The unexamined life is not worth living.” And that has value if it goes with being a philosophy student and filling the mind with those things worth thinking about and logical thinking is learned. However, without that training, well we have all heard, "garbage in garbage out". If our childhoods are terrible there ain't going to be anything good about self-examination. WE ARE NOT WHO WE THINK WE ARE WHEN OUR CHILDHOOD IS OPPRESSIVE AND DESTRUCTIVE. We are born with potential and although events can leave us badly damaged, as you said, we can be redeemed and set free by philosophy, music, the arts. I am saying every one of us is potentially a wonderful human being, but the damage we experience can make that hard to believe. However, I think there are brain disorders that may prevent some from doing well. I want to clearly separate emotional problems from organic ones.

I can see religious mythology is very helpful for some people and it does not take the work that philosophy takes. Religion is not based on truth if one reads their holy literally instead of abstractly. Therefore religion can be very problematic, so it is not the choice I wish for everyone. But being secular and not training the young for life is the worst thing! That is worse than religion.

This is Joseph Campbell's wisdom. "Myths are the guidebooks for life itself, with all its beauty and mystery. They reflect the concept of transcending duality (because while things do come in pairs and everything has its opposite, there can be no good without evil). Myths are the keys to understanding the whole of human experience."

Hi Jack,
You are quite right, the best way to overcome an emotion is with a stronger and opposite emotion. Free will is an absurd concept. When one considers the historical cause and effect/reaction lost in obscurity, and the complexity of human biology and its history. That fact is, we are all reactive creators, and it can be no other way, as our reactions then become causal to the world at large.