[M]embers of labor unions, and unorganized unskilled workers, will sooner or later realize that their government is not even trying to prevent wages from sinking or to prevent jobs from being exported. Around the same time, they will realize that suburban white-collar workers—themselves desperately afraid of being downsized—are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.
At that point, something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for—someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots. A scenario like that of Sinclair Lewis’ novel It Can’t Happen Here may then be played out. For once a strongman takes office, nobody can predict what will happen. In 1932, most of the predictions made about what would happen if Hindenburg named Hitler chancellor were wildly overoptimistic.
One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown Americans, and by homosexuals, will be wiped out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion. The words [slur for an African-American that begins with “n”] and [slur for a Jewish person that begins with “k”] will once again be heard in the workplace. All the sadism which the academic Left has tried to make unacceptable to its students will come flooding back. All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.
Richard Rorty Achieving Our Country 1998
How much do you expect and or fear that a strong fascist moment could be organized within the next 5 years? — BC
The Plot Against America is a novel by Philip Roth published in 2004. It is an alternative history in which Franklin D. Roosevelt is defeated in the presidential election of 1940 by Charles Lindbergh. It's believable, given its setting in time, but perhaps isn't indicative of how a fascist movement would operate now. — BC
The scary thing is the denial of fascism from Trump supporters. It’s sort of a gaslighting version. — schopenhauer1
So Trump is fascist and anyone who thinks that's nonsense is a Trump supporter and trying to gaslight you? — Tzeentch
I would quibble about Trump as actually fascist though. Fascists generally have an ideology. His is just narcissistic self-serving agenda for himself, co-opting the right for this agenda. — schopenhauer1
I think what schopenhaur1 implies, rather than that Trump himself is fascist, is that many Trump supporters are fascist, and they see his actions as an opening of the door, inviting them in. In reality he's just using them for his own personal gain, what schop describes as narcissistic. And, it appears like the number of fascists is sufficient to make opening the door to fascism worthwhile for him. — Metaphysician Undercover
It’s the psychology of a cult of personality. He can do no wrong, so he is immune. — schopenhauer1
I think what schopenhaur1 implies, rather than that Trump himself is fascist, is that many Trump supporters are fascist, and they see his actions as an opening of the door, inviting them in. In reality he's just using them for his own personal gain, what schop describes as narcissistic. And, it appears like the number of fascists is sufficient to make opening the door to fascism worthwhile for him. — Metaphysician Undercover
How much do you expect and or fear that a strong fascist moment could be organized within the next 5 years? — BC
Certainly possible, but not so probable, because a (too) strong fascist (or other political) movement is a threat to the ruling business movement. :cool: — jkop
Well, what is sure to happen is that any movement that gains power, will likely be called (rightly or wrongly) fascist. Because calling the other side fascist is the usual insult.How much do you expect and or fear that a strong fascist moment could be organized within the next 5 years? — BC
We need to keep an eye on Christian Nationalists (they're a thing in the US -- another abomination) — BC
So Trump is fascist and anyone who thinks that's nonsense is a Trump supporter and trying to gaslight you? :brow: Casting suspicion on anyone who disagrees with you is not a great starting point for discussion, and would sooner suggest that what you're looking for is an echo chamber. — Tzeentch
I think though that a bunch of the personality cult is tongue-in-cheek. The Trump voter base seems far more concerned with their enemies than with their "glorious leader". Arguably Hillary Clinton as the embodiment of evil is as important to the Trump movement as Trump is.
And I think this is ultimately why nothing "sticks" to Trump. His supporters do not care so long as he destroys the evil they are convinced is trying to rule their lifes.
And this brings us back to fascism: the overwhelming sense of crisis and the threat by evil outsiders. — Echarmion
The United States has had fascist movements in the past. The KKK is an example. Father McLaughlin had a popular radio show during the 1930s, reaching up to 30,000,000 a week. "The broadcasts have been described as "a variation of the Fascist agenda applied to American culture". Coughlin died in 1979. — BC
How much do you expect and or fear that a strong fascist moment could be organized within the next 5 years? — BC
How much do you expect and or fear that a strong fascist moment could be organized within the next 5 years? — BC
And this brings us back to fascism: the overwhelming sense of crisis and the threat by evil outsiders.
I really can't say much more than that. It is exactly what seems to be going on with that. — schopenhauer1
I mean look at Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley. In their debates, they are afraid to trash on the frontrunner who is the most corrupt president we've had in terms of blatantly using democratic means secure his power and whose divisive rhetoric has made the divisions that much greater. They know this, but they barely address Trump's unsuitability to take office, and his offensive behavior because that would mean the base would reprimand by not even considering such blasphemy of their dear leader. But that just shows the lack of backbone on their part. Only Chris Christie has spoken out forcefully in the presidential primary. Hell, Nikki Haley might even be letting open the possibility of being Trump's VP! — schopenhauer1
One hardly needs to be fascist to believe that the United States political ruling class is rotten to the core and should be removed for the sake of the people. In fact, looking at it from across the pond that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to believe. Obviously whether Trump is a suitable alternative is a whole other question, but this doesn't make him or his supporters fascist. — Tzeentch
Obviously whether Trump is a suitable alternative is a whole other question, but this doesn't make him or his supporters fascist. — Tzeentch
What of the Democrats, who shunned RFK Jr. and forced him to go independent? What of Hillary and Bernie?
Undemocratic and tasteless though such things may be, they're hardly exclusive to Trump or the Republican party. It actually seems to be a core feature of American democracy. — Tzeentch
And it's also typically democratic to point fingers at the other side and ignore the own side's role in the myriad of problems that plague the system. — Tzeentch
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.