It seems that humans are extremely, by default/nature, superstitious. That is to say that we possess thought patterns and behaviors that are meant to "make things go well or stay well". — schopenhauer1
Superstitions are not the same as compulsions. The compulsion to count things isn't superstitious -- it's just slightly crazy. The lucky red shirt isn't crazy -- it's just slightly stupid. — BC
Still, compulsions and superstitions can provide the sense of having control over the world, which tends to be important to us, given that we do not have control over a lot of things. — BC
Superstition is hard to define, but I think we all know that this is not the definition of superstition. Someone who has thought patterns and behaviors intended to make things go or stay well is a human being, not a superstitious human being. — Leontiskos
I think what I defined and 1a seem pretty compatible. — schopenhauer1
I'm not sure you're grasping how bad your definition is. According to your definition someone is superstitious if they get a haircut, or buy their girlfriend flowers, or exercise, because they are engaging in behavior meant to "make things go well or stay well."
"Superstition" is largely a pejorative word without a great deal of content, and this is why folks tend to have a hard time defining it. The definition process here is rather important. — Leontiskos
I think I have defined it in a way that would preclude how you are generalizing its usage. — schopenhauer1
I literally just explained why that's false. — Leontiskos
I literally just explained why that's false.
Superstition is a kind of religious excess, and that is why a secular age struggles to wield the word with any degree of accuracy. If we want to know whether X is part of the human psyche, we first need to figure out what in the world we mean by X. — Leontiskos
I think what I defined and 1a seem pretty compatible. If you rather it be "superstitious behaviors", that's fine. "Superstition" encompasses a lot of things, and words can have family resemblances. I am talking about the kind whereby we try to control the world through ritual, belief, and behavior. I don't necessarily mean it in the "All irrational belief in various forces and causes", though this is a genre of that. — schopenhauer1
It is more sophisticated, there may be less amount of it on the whole, but I think it's part of our nature. — Manuel
What do you think of "psycho-somatic" disorders? This starts getting tricky because the delusions can be subtle. — schopenhauer1
I'm wondering though if there is a connection between the two. Perhaps the compulsion is a maladaptive form of the superstitious tendency in humans. — schopenhauer1
I tend to separate superstitious thinking "Hey, this red shirt is a lucky charm!" from OCD "I HAVE TO count the chairs in my row, or I'll be really uncomfortable." I have a habit, or mild compulsion, to rinse out my glass before I fill it with cold water from the tap. I find a wet glass more appealing. A plastic glass, on the other hand, can't be helped by rinsing it out first. Yuck. It's a non-functional behavior. I used to have more of these, but they have faded away. — BC
If one has OCD, I would suspect that new compulsions will be manufactured out of superstitious ideas -- like the lucky red shirt MUST be worn under various circumstances or something bad will happen.
The sometimes screwy things that go on in our brains (superstition, religious fervor, unreasonable fearfulness or confidence, hallucinations, etc.) could very well be connected -- I just don't know how. The brain is just so damned complicated. — BC
not every ritual is a superstitious one — schopenhauer1
A good example is the rituals of Christian worship. A lot of the ritual (like saying "The Lord be with you / and also with you) has no "magical value". The words of institution in the Eucharist (for Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans...) do have a "magical value". Chanting the psalm for the day is a ritual -- not a magical act. Same for kneeling during prayer. Baptism is a magical act. Confession, on the other hand, is ritual and therapy at the same time. Exchanging the sign of peace with other members of the congregation has no magical value. It's just a nice ritual. — BC
I think we can readily split sociological forms of superstitious behavior from psychological superstitious/magical thinking behavior. — schopenhauer1
I think it has to be a component of "magical thinking". That is to say, there has to be a component of "Is this going to change reality in some way". One of the things that have changed over time, is that previously we might wholeheartedly just go along with the magical-thinking. — schopenhauer1
That is to say, we might know X behavior is "irrational" but we still believe its effects on reality. — schopenhauer1
Very much so. And perhaps and argument can be given that we are quite superstitious today, we simply aren't aware of it or we have modified ancient beliefs into our modern outlook. For instance, some aspects of "scientism" are very much of the same caliber as believing in ghosts. — Manuel
It seems that humans are extremely, by default/nature, superstitious. That is to say that we possess thought patterns and behaviors that are meant to "make things go well or stay well". — schopenhauer1
I tend to separate superstitious thinking "Hey, this red shirt is a lucky charm!" from OCD "I HAVE TO count the chairs in my row, or I'll be really uncomfortable." I have a habit, or mild compulsion, to rinse out my glass before I fill it with cold water from the tap. I find a wet glass more appealing. A plastic glass, on the other hand, can't be helped by rinsing it out first. Yuck. It's a non-functional behavior. I used to have more of these, but they have faded away. — BC
the adoption of non-physicalist or supernatural beliefs have been associated with maladaptive coping strategies such as avoidance or escapism, that is, through ‘spiritual bypassing’ (Welwood, J. Toward a Psychology of Spiritual Awakening (Shambhala, 2002)., Masters, R. A. Spiritual Bypassing (North Atlantic Books, 2010)., Kornfield, J. After the Ecstasy, the Laundry (Rider, 2000)., Hayes, S. C. A Liberated Mind (Avery, 2019).)
What if the desire for coldness is just a way to mask the unappealing flavor of one's drink, as some Europeans would say with respect to American beer? Subconscious mitigation of unappealing flavor? :razz: — Leontiskos
Exchanging the sign of peace with other members of the congregation has no magical value. — BC
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