But I can see arguments for how defining sex at the individual level might be different. — Count Timothy von Icarus
inventing new languages for each subfield of inquiry. — Count Timothy von Icarus
I suppose theres a level of correctness in your title and I believe the immutable part of sex, as the discussion is pointing towards is the Gametes. That being said every pathos of distance has ranks of gradations between them. "Male," and "Female," is useful for clarity in spoken language. It doesn't really tell you much about a person. — Vaskane
I think Sex and Gender are patently, inarguably different sets of properties and are easily discernable from one another. It is totally bizarre to me that it's taken seriously that they are either the same thing, or somehow reliant on one another — AmadeusD
Would you agree that in humans and other mammals
there are sex-correlated differences in brain function that lead to the differences in behavior between males and females that allow, for instance, dog owners and trainers to quickly recognize males and females on the basis of these inborn brain differences and they are manifested in behavior? — Joshs
The brokenness is the desire to be the other sex to the point of thinking you can actually be the other sex. Its not that you were born in the wrong body. — Philosophim
Many in the transgender community believe that gender is intertwined in a hopelessly inseparable way not only with cultural influences, but interweaves culture and the biological sex just as inseparably — Joshs
Its a contradiction to say that behaviors belong to one sex, but can cross into the other sex. Thus the transgender communities rationalization is not rational — Philosophim
It a not a question of crossing from one sex to another, but of questioning the categorical purity of the concept of biological sex. — Joshs
I understand. My point doesn't change. If behavior is necessarily associated with one's biological sex, it must only exhibit in that sex. If the same behavior can be seen in both sexes, then it is not sexual behavior, but human behavior. Unless the transgender community can counter this, they do not have a valid argument — Philosophim
ex as expression — Count Timothy von Icarus
But identity comes as much, if not more, from expression than function. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Ah, you were speaking specifically about a certain condition I was speaking of conditions in general AIS was just an example. — Vaskane
But it's quite possible for men to have internal female sex organs. Like I said, you reduce it down to gametes. — Vaskane
I take the state of the being's entire bodily make up. — Vaskane
a more limited social construct over a more comprehensive social construct. — Vaskane
But your way does boil it down to the two part formula I've accused you of being landlocked to in the past. — Vaskane
always boiling things down to their black and whites. — Vaskane
There is absolutely nothing wrong with defining this as a new sex. — Philosophim
Would you agree that in humans and other mammals there are sex-correlated differences in brain function that lead to the differences in behavior between males and females that allow, for instance, dog owners and trainers to quickly recognize males and females on the basis of these inborn brain differences and they are manifested in behavior? would you further allow that if there are such inborn sexual-related differences in psychological-behavioral gender , that there are likelyintermediates between male and female inborn brain organization. In other words, an inborn basis for a spectrum of psychological genders? — Joshs
Sexed bodies are processes of interactive behaving, not simply collections of dna, so gender isnt something to be tacked onto a scientized specimen after the fact. — Joshs
Many within the transgender community no longer accept this binary, even if we treat it as two opposite poles of a spectrum. — Joshs
They do counter it. You keep referring to two sexes. Many within the transgender community no longer accept this binary, even if we treat it as two opposite poles of a spectrum. — Joshs
I have not been insistent that there are only two sexes. For the general discussion, we are using two sexes. If you wish to discuss exceptions by addressing XXY etc., I still do not see this in opposition to my points. — Philosophim
I am going to be insistent. There are two sexes. Genetics do not determine sex. Genetics are variable within sex. — AmadeusD
There is not anyone who isn't male or female, but current understanding. Why isn't that good enough? — AmadeusD
Can I ask you, setting aside the complex theory, if you had to explain trans to a group of people with no understanding of the issue, how would you frame it? — Tom Storm
Can I ask you, setting aside the complex theory, if you had to explain trans to a group of people with no understanding of the issue, how would you frame it? — Tom Storm
I don't think Josh's reply answered your question. — Philosophim
I'm just trying to remain open on the subject cause it seems weird to me that sex was originally from Sexus, meaning to cut to divide to differentiate — Vaskane
I don't feel you were tactic hopping, I'm just trying to remain open on the subject cause it seems weird to me that sex was originally from Sexus, meaning to cut to divide to differentiate. It only became so entwined with "gametes" only near the turn of the 20th century. Only then did a biologist find something to apply their dualistic view of the concept to our body's functioning sex organs and reproduction system, narrowing it exclusively to something that fit their prejudice and say, "ah, the Gametes are core that determines sex. — Vaskane
Sexus, meaning to cut to divide to differentiate — Vaskane
I verify everything I say first — Vaskane
And showing the morphological transition from Sexus to Sex is easy af — Vaskane
we all know that YOU saying so doesn't mean shit at this point — Vaskane
And it is right, mother, that Hellenes should rule barbarians, but not barbarians Hellenes, those being slaves, while these are free. — Euripides
None of this says sexus means to divide or to separate, because it doesn't. A noun is not a verb. That is basic morphology.The modern meaning of sectio 'division' suggests that sec/xus might derive from secare 'to sever', but the morphology remains unclear: does sexus go back to an .s-present *sek-s-4to cut up', or was it derived from a form *sek-s- of the putative s-stem underlying secus.
There is nothing here about separating or dividing.sexŭs, (10) ūs, m. , sexe : Cic. Inv. 1, 35 || [en parl. de plantes, de minéraux] : Plin. 13, 31 ; 12, 61 ; 36, 128 || organes sexuels : Plin. 22, 20
If sex is biological there is no harm in attributing a new label to a different genetic structure. — Philosophim
Klinefelter syndrome — Philosophim
So we could label it as 'female Klinefelter or male Klinefelter', or we could call it a new sex "Klinefelter" for example. — Philosophim
Sex expression = phenotype expression related to sex. — Count Timothy von Icarus
male-female binary within the social and biological sciences, and the wider culture. — Joshs
The bigotry and hatred this community face is exceptional. — Tom Storm
I don't feel you were tactic hopping, I'm just trying to remain open on the subject cause it seems weird to me that sex was originally from Sexus, meaning to cut to divide to differentiate. It only became so entwined with "gametes" only near the turn of the 20th century. Only then did a biologist find something to apply their dualistic view of the concept to our body's functioning sex organs and reproduction system, narrowing it exclusively to something that fit their prejudice and say, "ah, the Gametes are core that determines sex." A sort of self fulfilling prophecy that purposefully excludes the history of the word and concept. Basically a sterilized scientific view with 0 philosophy involved.
As Pantagruel said in the thread on faith, science can only point to mundane facts. So it was forced to hand pick the most mundane elements of the human body when trying to identify Sex, in this case Gametes. — Vaskane
Umm... You realize that biology is the study of all life, and for biologists it is a pretty reasonable thing to do, to recognize the significant distinction between sexes that they do. Right? — wonderer1
Gender is like personality. Just as no two people share the same personality, no two people belong to the same gender. We can of course group people in loose sorts of ways by similarities in personality and gender behavior. The same is true of the concept of biological sex. — Joshs
I said you position is valid, what more do you want from me? — Vaskane
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