Yes. Thank your God for creating it, since you consider pain good. Job questioned it and Jehovah told him : Because I'm bigger than you. He accepted that and if it's fine for you, be happy. I disagree that there is anything intelligent or benevolent in a system that requires antelope to die in agony, torn apart by lions. They don't get the option of "working with it".But if we want to live at all, we’re going to have to work with it. I didn’t say like it, I said work with it. — Fire Ologist
They don't get the option of "working with it". — Vera Mont
The other antelopes do.
The lions do.
The vultures do.
The bacteria do.
The grass does. — Fire Ologist
Who's to say humans are worth more than cockroaches? — BitconnectCarlos
says who? — flannel jesus
If something is not necessarily right then it could possibly be wrong — BitconnectCarlos
necessarily thrive or self-actualize — BitconnectCarlos
Although the head may err, the blood will never be wrong. — Nakajima Atsushi
I did, see above. — Lionino
Remove God and life can lose its sanctity quickly. — BitconnectCarlos
The truth is, you are both right.That right? All the time the majority of the people believed in God, none of them killed any other? — Vera Mont
Or vice versa. People who claim a religion don't just kill the irreligious and the heretics, they also kill those who profess a different version of their own religion, and those who profess their same religion but fight for a different king, people of their own nation and faith accused of crimes, their rivals, neighbours, fathers, spouses and other drunks at the same tavern.But I don't think history shows religious people any worse than irreligious or atheistic people. — Ludwig V
He's right, of course, in his annoying way. Either there's a justification for that difference or there isn't. If there isn't, then morality is deficient. But I think there is. Cockroaches are annoying and dangerous. Butterflies mostly are not, but they are beautiful - except perhaps when they are caterpillars. (That's awkward, I admit) I don't see anything dubious about not destroying beautiful things that do no harm and something very dubious about not destroying dangerous things that are harmful.“If you crush a cockroach, you're a hero. If you crush a beautiful butterfly, you're a villain. Morals have aesthetic criteria.” - Nietzsche — BitconnectCarlos
If something is not necessarily right then it could possibly be wrong. Evolution helps us survive, not necessarily thrive or self-actualize. — BitconnectCarlos
Evolution doesn't give a toss whether individuals or a given species survive or not. It doesn't even care much if a species survives. It is a consequence of the genetic variation of individuals within a species and the random effects of that variation on the survival and reproduction of traits amongst those individuals. Morality has nothing to do with it.Do you not think that the values that we define as necessary for those two are given (majorly) by evolution? — Lionino
On that basis, agnosticism is the only rational response. (It is my preferred response if people ever ask me.) But there are a number of physical impossibilities, not to mention improbabilities, about that the green donkey hypothesis that make it, in my view, unreasonable to be agnostic about it. I assume that you focus on logical possibilities because that's the tradition of our philosophy. But we have to live with physical impossibilities as well, so it seems a bit peculiar to ignore them, if what you want to understand is human beings."Erm, I can't say either way", even though there is nothing logically contradictory about a green floating donkey tidally locked behind Jupiter in respect to the Earth. — Lionino
That's the logical procedure, and some theists do like to try to follow it. But God isn't an empirical hypothesis. It is how you frame your life. What God means, according to the religions, is how one should (try to) live one's life. (What science means is not just the philosophy of science, but how you do it in practice.) Admittedly, how that works out in practice can be a bit puzzling to outsiders, but that's how the ideas work. (The same is true of science) To put it another way, if you start by defining God, that may turn out not to be a hypothesis, but an axiom. And there's no arguing with axioms, except by their results. In this case, the argument has to be about what life the believer leads.First, define what God is, then we can say if we know enough to say, with certainty, that such a thing exists or does not. Maybe we can't reach certainty, in that case we shift to probabilities. — Manuel
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