being good modern empiricists, we have no need for potency. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Well, the concept of potential is used all the time in practical matters, e.g. the counterfactual analysis that makes up a great bulk of the work done in the sciences, engineering problems, "potential energy," potential growth in economics, attracting "potential mates" in biology, etc. — Count Timothy von Icarus
It's really more in the realm of metaphysics or something like the amorphous "metaphysics of science" that the prohibition on talking about potentialities seems to hold. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Say you have a 12V battery with infinite resistance across the terminals. What's the current? If you say zero, then Ohms Law (which relates potential to kinetic) will tell you that you've multiplied zero times infinity and ended up with 12. — frank
What is your favorite? — wonderer1
If the resistance is infinite, there is no voltage, or potential. — frank
I have observed more than a few people argue that potency/potential is best left out of natural philosophy because it is, in principle, not empirically observable. Only act can be observable, hence, being good modern empiricists, we have no need for potency. — Count Timothy von Icarus
So what's the difference? Or is the "observability" thing really just a red herring?
I think you have hit upon the prohibitive problem with the word "potential" : Metaphysics. It implies the creation of something new that does not yet exist in physical form : Counterfactual.Well, the concept of potential is used all the time in practical matters, e.g. the counterfactual analysis that makes up a great bulk of the work done in the sciences, engineering problems, "potential energy," potential growth in economics, attracting "potential mates" in biology, etc.
It's really more in the realm of metaphysics or something like the amorphous "metaphysics of science" that the prohibition on talking about potentialities seems to hold. — Count Timothy von Icarus
As you noted, materialistic Science is OK with the notion of Potential in cases where the before & after can be measured, in theory. For example, a AA battery is rated for 1.5 volts, but that future current is imaginary in the sense that it cannot be measured until a hypothetical circuit is completed by some external Cause. So, what is rated is unreal Potential*1 instead of real Actual voltage. — Gnomon
Ironically, the Potential of a physical battery refers to something physically non-existent, hence literally Metaphysical : knowable only by Reason, not by Senses*2. — Gnomon
I have observed more than a few people argue that potency/potential is best left out of natural philosophy because it is, in principle, not empirically observable. Only act can be observable, hence, being good modern empiricists, we have no need for potency. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Such flows generate infinite processes that often produce observable data on each iteration, so there is also empirical meaning with regards to the execution of an infinite process. — sime
I have observed more than a few people argue that potency/potential is best left out of natural philosophy because it is, in principle, not empirically observable. Only act can be observable, hence, being good modern empiricists, we have no need for potency. — Count Timothy von Icarus
As you said, "only acts can be observed", but Potential for a future Act can be imagined, and even calculated mathematically. Ironically, Wonderer1 sees no need for spooky spiritual Potency, because he has a Mathematical term for the before/after relationship of Causation : Difference*1. He seems to think that mathematics is empirical, hence more real than metaphysical Potential. So, he asserts that Voltage can exist in the absence of Current flow*2. Which is true in the metaphysical sense of a calculated, but not measured, Difference. In Aristotelian terms, Voltage is a Formal (theoretical) Cause, not a Material (empirical) Cause*3.I'm no mathmatician, but it seems to me that in a practical sense we need at least the mathematical ideas of infinity and continuums. I'm not seeing a similar need for potency. — wonderer1
[Emphasis added]Epistemic unconscientiousness is an essential but not exhaustive component of pseudoscience. To count as pseudoscientific, a belief must also be about some scientific issue, and this is precisely where pseudoscience and pseudophilosophy differ. Just like pseudoscience, pseudophilosophy is defined by a lack of epistemic conscientiousness, but its subject matter is philosophical rather than scientific.
I have observed more than a few people argue that potency/potential is best left out of natural philosophy because it is, in principle, not empirically observable. Only act can be observable, hence, being good modern empiricists, we have no need for potency.
Well, I can understand this argument, even if I don't agree with it. However, it seems to me that the same exact sort of argument can be made against the infinite/continuous. After all, the infinite is, in principle, unobservable. We cannot have measurements consisting of an infinite number of decimals for instance.
Yet modern empirical thinking does not seem to have the same attitude on the infinite. Certainly, there are arguments for finitism, and it seems to be an idea that is getting more popular in physics, but no one says that it must be the case because the infinite is unobservable.
Indeed, that continuous mathematics is useful is often taken to simply imply an unobservable continuum. But this sort of reasoning seems to work just as well for potency, no?
So what's the difference?
Or is the "observability" thing really just a red herring? — Count Timothy von Icarus
A response to my discussion of Voltage as Potential (not yet real) current, elicited, not a counterargument, but an ad hominem accusation of heresy : "pseudophilosophy is defined by a lack of epistemic conscientiousness" — Gnomon
Could you perhaps unpack what you mean by potency/potential in this context?
Well, I wrote and lost a long reply to this — Count Timothy von Icarus
We simply don't understand the logic behind infinity and hence continuity. It's the really big thing missing. The math is already there with calculus. We just don't have a beautiful philosophical answer to this part of mathematics, even if we already know the math.Indeed, that continuous mathematics is useful is often taken to simply imply an unobservable continuum. But this sort of reasoning seems to work just as well for potency, no?
So what's the difference?
Or is the "observability" thing really just a red herring? — Count Timothy von Icarus
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