This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Tim, all I'm feeling over here is hostility and not a discussion. Lets just shelve this one and I'll catch you on another thread.

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Saith him wanting to be logical. I'm looking for a discussion with clarity on a serious problem. You just want to play. It's too bad you do not know how to do either. — tim wood

You know, if you can't treat the people in front of you nicely who are trying to politely disengage from a conversation, maybe you aren't the person we should be listening to in regards to moral choices. As a long term member, you should be behaving better. Get ahold of those emotions in you that want to attack or belittle me for whatever reason, and we'll have a nice conversation another time.

I do think immigration from southern countries will have a lot of effects on the social cohesion, aesthetics, tradition, culture and IQ of the northern nations. But I fail to see some ethical ground on stopping it (maybe there are grounds on limiting immigration, but I don't see ethical grounds to ban it, and even if there were such grounds, I don't see a viable way of effectively enforcing immigration ban in a continent like Europe).

Let's say I am a Kurd or a Palestinian and the entire world conspired against my national statehood, and I don't want to live anymore in Syria, but I want to move to the biggest country in the world, i.e. Russia. I don't see a single ethical reason that Russians should stop me from emigrating there. Russians used power, intrigues, weapons, suppression, alliances and so on, to have the biggest country in the world with just 160 million citizens and to stop a Kurd or a Palestinian relocating there does not seem to me to have any ethical grounds.

Anyway, although I don't find ethical grounds on stopping immigration (and even if I found one I don't see real practical solutions against immigration), lately I have started thinking that maybe countries should apply gender quotas on immigration, cause you have countries like Bahrain where the 75% of population are males, and I don't know what is the purpose allowing countries to have these abnormal gender ratios. In Bahrain it sounds terrible to be either a man or a woman, and I hope some western countries start to apply gender quotas on immigrants, before Ireland or Netherlands become Bahrain. No woman and no man should live in a country where the male population is two or three times higher than the female one. It sounds like total hell for everyone. Gender ratio, in my view, is a matter Europeans and Americans should have in mind when talking about immigration.