• Wayfarer
    22.5k
    I have been following the debate about healthcare in the states since The Affordable Care Act was introduced. Of course, at the time, it was derided as 'socialism' or 'socialised medicine' by Republicans, who did everything possible to block it before it passed or destroy it after it had. Now they're tying themselves in knots about it, for the simple reason that their original opposition to it was NOT based on 'providing a better solution'. It was based on not having universal health coverage at all. And they knew, once it came in, they would never be able to ditch it, because it is actually a very valuable social service.

    Their replacement bill is, therefore, an exquisite exercise in hypocrisy. Trump dropped the GOP in it by promising to make healthcare 'even better', i.e. more benefits for less cost, which is, of course impossible. And not only is it impossible, it's not even what the real Conservatives want to do. They just want to dump it, pure and simple - because it provides 'public benefit'. And what does 'public benefit' mean? It means tax dollars - including dollars belonging to the privileged elite - are taken off them by the government, and spent on services for those who can't otherwise afford it. That's what they want to destroy. But now they have to keep up the pretence of actually caring about public health - and that's what's tearing them to bits.
  • Rich
    3.2k
    The U.S spends 40% more than any other developed nation on so-called healthcare and is absolutely last in life expectancy. In fact, for the the first time in decades, life expectancy has actually gone down in the U.S. last year. More money doesn't equal better health (actually it appears to degrade health) and we need better solutions than to keep giving more and more money to the medical industry. So far prescription opioids have killed over 180,000 people. How many more need to die before we reconsider the direction of our health policies?
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    753
    Eliminate the middle man.

    Patients should pay providers directly.

    Have high-interest health savings accounts for everybody. The interest rate could go up every time a withdrawal is made for preventive health care (a physical exam, a vaccination, etc.). Employers could be contribute by matching purchases of fresh produce--every dollar you spend on fresh produce they deposit 1¢ in your health savings account.

    Households could purchase, or employers could offer, affordable insurance for only the most catastrophic illnesses. The policyholder would make the claim, not the provider.

    There are plenty of ways to incentivize healthy lifestyles, reduce costs by eliminating paperwork, etc. But we are too obsessed with insurance to consider other possibilities.
  • BC
    13.6k
    In fact, for the the first time in decades, life expectancy has actually gone down in the U.S. last year.Rich

    The reason for this is

    prescription opioids have killed over 180,000 peopleRich

    and you can add in the added mortality of methamphetamines and shared needle use for any recreational drug.

    Add in higher suicide rates among middle-aged and older men.
  • BC
    13.6k
    Eliminate the middle man.WISDOMfromPO-MO

    The insurance companies are the parasitic middlemen in this industry. Their administrative role has become bloated, counter-productive, and self-serving.

    Households could purchase, or employers could offer, affordable insurance for only the most catastrophic illnesses. The policyholder would make the claim, not the provider.WISDOMfromPO-MO

    It doesn't take catastrophic illnesses to bankrupt a family. The purpose of insurance is to spread risk across the widest possible group. Insurance companies have demonstrated their uselessness in this area. In fact, the enterprise of health care insurance has become useless.

    The solution: liquidate the health insurance industry (This would amount to a huge savings in useless cost). Establish the Federal Government as the single payer of health care costs, and allow the government to collect premiums from each citizen. As single payer, the government would be in a position to control costs in the health care industry, like it does for Medicare, and providers would have no escape from regulation.

    The fact is, hospitals, medical employees (administrators, doctors, specialists, nurses, etc.), pharmaceutical companies and all kinds of medical suppliers, are all passing on high rates of pay and profit onto the patients in the form of high premiums and added payments. Medicare caps fees. Let the single payer do the same thing.
  • BC
    13.6k
    There are plenty of ways to incentivize healthy lifestyles, reduce costs by eliminating paperwork, etc. But we are too obsessed with insurance to consider other possibilities.WISDOMfromPO-MO

    There are, indeed, ways in incentives healthy lifestyles. The difficulty is devising sufficiently attractive and affordable incentives which actually change behavior.

    One good incentive are the shared bike programs, which place bikes at numerous kiosks where they can be rented using a vending machine-type system. The bikes can be returned to any kiosk. The incentive is that you can decide to use a bike for a small fee, for a (practically) limited period of time.

    Eliminating free parking at strip mall and supermarket parking lots would be a way of encouraging people to bike to the store, walk to the store, or park in a less convenient location and walk the rest of the way.

    Building exercise opportunities into parks and walkways. Some parks have 'circuits' which provide simple equipment at intervals which encourage people to walk and do strength exercises.

    Rather than funding sport teams for a few students, high schools should fund exercise programs for all students.
  • Wayfarer
    22.5k
    Patients should pay providers directly.WISDOMfromPO-MO

    How does a $15.11 an hour guy pay a $375.24 an hour guy? Let alone the teams of professionals required to treat serious accidents or injury?

    As BC says, the aim of insurance is to spread risk. I'm inclined to agee that 'the insurance industry' has itself become parasitic. But it seems some form of insurance, in that sense, is absolutely unavoidable.

    At the end of the day, there are the kinds of issues that what tax and social welfare policies are aimed at addressing. But there's an ideological core in the GOP that doesn't believe in either tax or social welfare, and tacitly if not explicitly believes that if you can't afford treatment, then you ought not to receive any. It's just that they can't spell it out.
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    One can hope that the whole thing falls on itself eventually.

    *No signs of it happening yet.*
  • Michael
    15.6k
    Have one insurer who covers everything and isn't interested in making a profit. Hmm, sounds familiar to something...
  • Michael
    15.6k
    Of course, at the time, it was derided as 'socialism' or 'socialised medicine' by Republicans, who did everything possible to block it before it passed or destroy it after it had.Wayfarer

    Strange, considering it's similar to the Republican's earlier HEART Act.
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    753
    How does a $15.11 an hour guy pay a $375.24 an hour guy? Let alone the teams of professionals required to treat serious accidents or injury?...Wayfarer



    With cash.

    Cash from a high-interest health savings account.

    Cash that he/she is depositing into that account rather than using to pay premiums to a middle man.

    Eliminate the middle man.



    As BC says, the aim of insurance is to spread risk. I'm inclined to agee that 'the insurance industry' has itself become parasitic. But it seems some form of insurance, in that sense, is absolutely unavoidable...Wayfarer



    1.) Eliminate risks. The risk of polio has been eliminated in most places. The risk of lead poisoning has been virtually eliminated where lead-based paint is no longer used. Etc.

    2.) Minimize the risks that insurance is spreading. Pay for physical exams, vaccinations, x-rays, etc. out of your own pocket. Buy insurance only to cover the most expensive care for the most catastrophic illnesses, such as when someone needs a kidney transplant.

    3.) The price per month for insurance coverage should, therefore, be significantly less and significantly more affordable for significantly more people.




    At the end of the day, there are the kinds of issues that what tax and social welfare policies are aimed at addressing. But there's an ideological core in the GOP that doesn't believe in either tax or social welfare, and tacitly if not explicitly believes that if you can't afford treatment, then you ought not to receive any. It's just that they can't spell it out.Wayfarer




    And I would argue that there's an even bigger ideological core in the Democratic party with even narrower tunnel vision than the GOP ideolgues. They can't see, I would argue, outside of income and wealth inequality. They can't see, I would argue, any solution other than universal insurance coverage. They seem to be oblivious to administrative costs and other costs and waste that inflate the price of health care. They seem oblivious to the fact that the middle man that they are obsessed with universalizing the use of and involving in every health care transaction may be the biggest source of those excess costs and that waste. They seem averse to market innovations that would lower prices and give consumers, regardless of wealth and income level, more buying power.

    It has been said that Republicans don't really want abortion criminalized. If it was criminalized the culture war that they use to get votes and maintain power would be diminished, the thinking goes. Similarly, maybe Democrats don't really want quality health care to be affordable for everybody--they use what is probably an unrealistic policy, universal health care coverage through an inefficient system dominated by an extremely economically draining middle man, to keep votes coming and maintain their power.
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