Peace at the price of sacrificing a Ukraine. — Vera Mont

Europe gave 50% of military aid to Ukraine and actually more than the US when all aid is considered.

It's the time of our awakening: do we continue supporting Ukraine when raging Trump stops all aid to Ukraine? Do we let Ukraine fall?

I genuinely hope that Europe really awakes and does support freedom from tyranny and imperialism.

I genuinely hope that Europe really awakes and does support freedom from tyranny and imperialism. — ssu

Update:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/19/britain-and-france-working-on-plans-for-reassurance-force-to-protect-ukraine

It's the time of our awakening: do we continue supporting Ukraine when raging Trump stops all aid to Ukraine? Do we let Ukraine fall? — ssu

Raging Trump is also stopping aid to other countries that will soon be up for grabs, including several that will also expand as bases for anti-American - and very probably anti-European - terrorism.

I genuinely hope that Europe really awakes and does support freedom from tyranny and imperialism. — ssu

So do I. But they also have to take a broader view and team up with pro-democratic factions in Asia, Africa and South America.
PS - Earlier, I forgot to mention Panama among his imperialist targets. Right after the national parks are opened to drilling and mining.

So do I. But they also have to take a broader view and team up with pro-democratic factions in Asia, Africa and South America. — Vera Mont

And North America (Canada). ;)

I'm guessing things would have to keep up pace with Trumpistan, though, at least in some respects.

I'm guessing things would have to keep up pace with Trumpistan, though, at least in some respects. — jorndoe

Not have to, and I wish we could all see that resistance is imperative. But some of the elements have been here for some time already. There is a better than even chance that the next government will be conservative. How close to the extreme right they'll go is still an open question. I admit to not sleeping well these nights.

, even though he's a nuisance, hasn't Poilievre expressed a "No" to Trump?

So has Vance.... It's easy to say no when your self-interest is not at stake.

even though he's a nuisance, hasn't Poilievre expressed a "No" to Trump? — jorndoe

This is interesting but could do with clarification for those not in the know.
In what way is Poilievre a 'nuisance' ? What and when did he say "No" and why?
I admit my ignorance.

I've read that he is a Canadian, Tory leader in opposition with an eye to winning the next election. An aggressive populist. It seems he was/is against Trudeau's 'Team Canada' approach to the criminal who wants to take over Canada. He kept pressure on Trudeau with various accusations and criticisms.

But then Trudeau announced his resignation. Not long after that, the criminal was sworn in as US President and so, tactics were changed.

Now, everybody is talking about the criminal. He is consuming all political space.
Threatening Canada in all kinds of ways.

So, now the Tory message is 'Canada First'. This will appeal to voters. To put Canadians first.
Cue increased patriotism and nationalism.
And the questions, I suppose, of who is considered 'Canadian'?
Will this be a Trumpian MCGA? It sounds very much like it. McGa?

So has Vance.... It's easy to say no when your self-interest is not at stake. — Vera Mont

Vance may well have been against the criminal in the past but now he is excelling himself.
It was his speech that provoked the European Crisis. A Trumpian tirade to refuel populism in Europe.

Vance's address otherwise focused on culture-war issues and key themes of Trump's campaign for the US presidency - a departure from the usual security and defence discussions at the annual conference.

He alleged European Union "commissars" were suppressing free speech, blamed the continent for mass migration, and accused its leaders of retreating from "some of its most fundamental values".
[...]

He raised a legal case in which an army veteran who silently prayed outside an abortion clinic was convicted of breaching an 150-metre safe zone around the centre.

The safe zone, introduced in October 2022, bans activity in favour or against abortion services, including protests, harassment and vigils.

But Vance argued that the "basic liberties of religious Britons, in particular" were under threat.

Vance went on to criticise the use of laws enforcing buffer zones, saying that free speech was in retreat and alleging that the Scottish government had warned people against private prayer within their own homes.

In response, the Scottish government said Vance's claim was "incorrect" and the law was "carefully drafted to capture only intentional or reckless behaviour close to a small number of premises providing abortion services". — BBC - Vance attacks Europe

That is only one example of how he 'questioned' European democracy.

And now we have the criminal, fascist US President calling Zelensky a dictator, in retaliation for Z telling him that he was living in a 'disinformation bubble'.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/19/ukraine-zelenskyy-says-trump-living-in-russian-disinformation-bubble

But they also have to take a broader view and team up with pro-democratic factions in Asia, Africa and South America. — Vera Mont

How do you envisage this happening? Who are these factions?

Democracy itself does not guarantee human rights, fairness or justice. As clearly seen in USA and elsewhere. But, yes, it is better than the alternatives.

I am glad that it is not a hard-right Tory or populist Trumpian Farage who is in charge of the UK right now.
Not all who partake in democracy hold a progressive vision.

I agree that there needs to be a more cohesive and concerted global effort.
However, Europe needs to deal with its own crisis, first and foremost. Fast!

It's like when flying, passengers are instructed to put their own oxygen mask on first.
If you run out of oxygen, you can't help anyone else. If you die, you can't help.

There is a better than even chance that the next government will be conservative. How close to the extreme right they'll go is still an open question. I admit to not sleeping well these nights. — Vera Mont

What can be done to prevent the swing to an extreme right, once the Tories are in power?
Or what can be done to improve the chances of progressive parties in the election?

I think many people are anxious and uncertain of how this will affect their own lives.
Already, there were/are many in crisis situations, now those in relative comfort feel under attack.
Fear fuelling anger and resentment. Or v.v.
Who knows where this will lead...

The progressives need to get their act together. Give a clear message and counteract the lies.
Show their faces and speak out loud! A fresh and higher profile to rinse out the Trumpian mug shots.
Who and where are they?

Follow-up. What can be done to improve democracy?

Compulsory voting?
Education of the citizens.
For participation to be effective, we should know the relevant facts, be able to evaluate political arguments, and understand where our interests lie.

Education - how people can be manipulated. Education of the importance of words.
Education about emotions and anger. Educate to enable good questioning.

***

But then, what recourse if things don't turn out as expected. If chaos ensues.
How do we make rogue, criminal Presidents accountable?
When constitutional laws are overturned. When trillionaires and multi-billionaires call the tune.
Did we vote for them? For them to enrich themselves at our expense?
Did we vote for dictatorship? Perhaps some did, without realising the full implications.

We pay the price for ignorance.

By the time you know what is happening, it's too late to ask for your vote back.

What Ukraine needs are REAL security guarantees, not "peacekeepers" especially if there is no peace. Starting with the Budapest memorandum, I would think that Ukrainians don't trust papers with signatures so much.

Follow-up. What can be done to improve democracy?

Compulsory voting? — Amity

I
No. It's only a right and can only be a right.

Education of the citizens. — Amity

Yes. Starting with an education system that educates how the democracy works and general knowledge about the economy, history and international relations. You cannot have a democracy with ignorant citizens.

But then, what recourse if things don't turn out as expected. If chaos ensues.
How do we make rogue, criminal Presidents accountable? — Amity

It's up to the people themselves. How strong are your institutions? Is your population engaged in politics.

Just ask yourself: Have you been active in your country's politics, are you a member of a political party or have been at least a candidate in elections? Or among your friends and family, do you have these people?

I haven't been active myself, other than consistently have voted. But I have friends that have been candidates and know from childhood one member of Parliament and have in my work several times met and discussed things with members of Parliament.

What Ukraine needs are REAL security guarantees, not "peacekeepers" especially if there is no peace. — ssu

Yes. And doesn't that take someone to start the process, whatever name you want to call them.
From the article, the plan is:

intended to prevent future Russian attacks on Ukrainian cities, ports and critical infrastructure in the event of a US-brokered peace deal.
[...]
A precondition of the European plan, however, would also be a US commitment to a “backstop” which, though not spelled out in detail is likely, one official said, to be “biased towards air power and the extraordinary strength we have in air power”. Such operations could be based in Poland and Romania, they added.

Keir Starmer, the UK prime minister, is due to fly out to Washington next week to lobby the US president, Donald Trump, directly and persuade him to agree to providing a backstop that would ensure the European “reassurance force” would not be challenged by Russia in the future. The French president, Emmanuel Macron, is also due to visit Washington next week. — The Guardian

I don't know how much of this is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. But isn't it a start and better than nothing.
Just standing by isn't an option, is it?

What do you propose?

Just standing by isn't an option, is it? — Amity

It's only a very bad option.

Yup. So, what do you propose?

Yes. Starting with an education system that educates how the democracy works and general knowledge about the economy, history and international relations. You cannot have a democracy with ignorant citizens. — ssu

And Q&A debates about current political parties and their policies. Without focus on personalities.
Testing understanding and arguing from a position opposite to your own. To better understand other perspectives. I would say that voters should have a capability test but that would not be realistic!

But then, what recourse if things don't turn out as expected. If chaos ensues.
How do we make rogue, criminal Presidents accountable?
— Amity
It's up to the people themselves. How strong are your institutions? Is your population engaged in politics.

Just ask yourself: Have you been active in your country's politics, are you a member of a political party or have been at least a candidate in elections? Or among your friends and family, do you have these people? — ssu

No. I didn't realise the importance of politics until late in life. I found it boring.
I only knew that Tories were bad! I didn't have that education that is sorely needed.

At some point, I did consider joining a party but not convinced it was worthwhile. Also, indecisive.
The thought of being a candidate never even crossed my mind. Too busy with other life activities and then too late, for health reasons.
I have friends who have strong political opinions who are not activists. We all vote.

So, there you have it. I am probably like most of the population.
Nevertheless, I am engaged in an effort to discover what is going on.

I haven't been active myself, other than consistently have voted. But I have friends that have been candidates and know from childhood one member of Parliament and have in my work several times met and discussed things with members of Parliament. — ssu

You are fortunate. I am still very much in the process of learning. And asking questions.
There is no clear route to hold dictators, criminal Presidents to account, is there? Before irreparable damage is done, is there?
No legislation. No way of turning back the tide until the next election, even if that is allowed...

@javi2541997
I'm curious. Why did you delete all your posts?

All of them were poorly written and explained. I wrote them without having an order in my mind. My emotional spring has betrayed me once again.

Oh, that's a shame. I often write without an order in mind! I don't always know where my thoughts and questions will lead.
I understand impassioned responses. You could have returned to edit your posts but I respect your decision. Thank you for your honest reply. Cheers! :sparkle:

But they also have to take a broader view and team up with pro-democratic factions in Asia, Africa and South America. — Vera Mont
How do you envisage this happening? — Amity

With a great deal of perspicacity, tact and healthy by-pass-the-US commerce.

Who are these factions? — Amity

The governments of Cape Verde, Seychelles, and South Africa; Taiwan, Japan and South Korea; Costa Rica, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Jamaica, plus, of course Mexico, with whom Canada does a lot of trade already and who should be fairly disgruntled with Trumpism by now. Besides making pacts with established governments, the anti-Trump confederacy should also support democratic opposition in non-democratic counrties, as well as aid to agencies that promote health, justice and education. Oh, and as many micro-loans as possible.

Democracy itself does not guarantee human rights, fairness or justice. As clearly seen in USA and elsewhere. But, yes, it is better than the alternatives. — Amity

The one advantage it does have is the periodic user-review: the people are able to remove bad governments by legal, orderly means and opt for something they perceive as better. Even if it's not, they can still turn back next election. Once a dictatorship is entrenched, builds fortresses and removes all access points where the people could influence decisions and arms itself against all opposition.

What can be done to prevent the swing to an extreme right, once the Tories are in power? — Amity

Nothing short of organized resistance - which is costly.

Or what can be done to improve the chances of progressive parties in the election? — Amity

Tighter organization. Identification of pressure-points - both positive and negative*. Simple direct communication with the voters, addressing their immediate concerns.
(*The single biggest misstep in the Harris campaign was that ad by Julia Roberts, and the Handmaid one; more generally, the loud harping on reproductive freedom. The Dems totally failed to understand the prevailing misogyny, especially among the non-white, working class and young voters.)

Vance is comfortable adjusting his sheep outfit as needed. His pow wow with the Alternative for Germany party coincides with AfD MEP Hans Neuhoff calling for normalization with Russia:

All this right-wing upsurge will certainly make it difficult for Europe to muster international solidarity... or get its act together in any sense.
I think the point has been passed; we're in for the bumpiest ride in human history.

Thank you for the video. Times radio interviewing AfD MEP, Hans Neuhoff.
So, arguments plainly given for the need to deal with Putin. Economic and energy interests being the main concern. The view is that Putin as being protective of Russia, hence the need to attack Ukraine.

What caught my interest was when the presenter introduced an AfD policy; the preference to have larger families than more immigrants. (01:04 - 01:080).

This is a recurring theme of the hard-right. And is in line with Trumpian politics.
From an earlier post:

Immigrants in Europe are an essential force that has a huge economic influence. Immigrants make significant contributions to labour markets, help innovations, and fill critical shortages of skills. The analysis of demographic trends shows the need for immigrants to keep European economies growing as its aging population diminishes. Diverse skills, unique perspectives, as well as strong work ethos that immigrant employees embody boosts general productivity in various sectors.
— EIIR - The Importance of Immigrants in Boosting European Community

But it seems like another option is preferred. We must have more babies!
Farage has it sorted. Have you ever heard such nonsense?

“Of course family matters enormously, of course we need higher birth rates,” Farage told the event, adding that the UK and wider west had “kind of forgotten that what underpins everything is our Judeo-Christian culture, and that’s where we need to start”.

Restoring a “sense of optimism” that was last afoot in the 1980s and 1990s was essential to reversing decreasing fertility rates in the UK, Farage said.

Calling for some “very, very big cultural changes” to persuade Britons to have children, he went on: “We’ve got to start telling young kids that hard work is good, that success is good, that there are no shortcuts in life, that making money is good.”
[...]
The issue ofdeclining birth rates in the west has been highlighted by Elon Musk and several other Maga-related figures.
— Financial Times - Farage calls for more UK births

Oh yes, and their solution is to 'own' women and take away their rights. Make babies. Now! — Amity

This is concerning. How do they propose to make all this baby-making happen?
And will the babies need to be of a certain race, colour and pedigree...

So, now the Tory message is 'Canada First'. This will appeal to voters. To put Canadians first.
Cue increased patriotism and nationalism.
And the questions, I suppose, of who is considered 'Canadian'?
Will this be a Trumpian MCGA? It sounds very much like it. McGa? — Amity

Put Canada first - not Canadians. Yup, MAGA Jr. It means whatever he says it does. Tax cuts for the rich owner class, which in practice means curtailing social services for the poor. Invest in domestic industry, which actually means rapid automation, lower wages and union-busting. Support construction, which usually means high-end condos in residential districts, pushing out the residents and the 'development' of agricultural land and green spaces for the upper middle class. More spending on the military, which means less on health and education. And, of course, the eternal cry of "Drill, baby, drill!"
Economic self-sufficiency is a good idea. The way capitalists go about it does not benefit the people.

Education - how people can be manipulated. Education of the importance of words.
Education about emotions and anger. Educate to enable good questioning. — Amity

And when the right wing is in charge, who sets the curriculum? Rampaging Trump wants to squash public schools and replace them with them education-for-profit and religious indoctrination. Given what previous conservative governments have done to education, no doubt a Polievre administration would follow a similar route. So.... where is all this improved electorate through education supposed to come from?
Not commercial mass media! And the public broadcasters will soon lose their funding, if not their licenses.

What caught my interest was when the presenter introduced an AfD policy, preferring to have larger families than more immigrants. (01:04 - 01:080).

This is a recurring theme of the hard-right. And is in line with Trumpian politics. — Amity

Sound's familiar. Keep the wimmin barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, for the greater glory of the Fatherland. Or Stalin's slogan to the effect that childbearing is the duty of married women and a laudable public service from unmarried ones. That'll load 'em down with responsibility and fear; keep them out of politics.

What can be done to prevent the swing to an extreme right, once the Tories are in power?
— Amity
Nothing short of organized resistance - which is costly.
Or what can be done to improve the chances of progressive parties in the election?
— Amity
Tighter organization. Identification of pressure-points - both positive and negative*. Simple direct communication with the voters, addressing their immediate concerns. — Vera Mont

Exactly this. And less of the party pantomime and complacency.

Organised resistance may well be costly but so is not doing anything.

There was plenty of money being thrown around at USA Election time.

By then, it is too late and the money could have been better spent.

The Democrats need to get their act together all year round. The time and energy of electioneering activists harnessed not just in door-to-door and phone calls. I don't really know how it works or what really goes on to help people at ground level. Just giving my impressions of out-of-touch leaders and politicians.

(*The single biggest misstep in the Harris campaign was that ad by Julia Roberts, and the Handmaid one; more generally, the loud harping on reproductive freedom. The Dems totally failed to understand the prevailing misogyny, especially among the non-white, working class and young voters.) — Vera Mont

The Dems seem not to get what is staring everybody else in the face.
Or if they do, then they have a strange way of getting the message over.

I hope they sort themselves out as soon as.

, in campaigning and otherwise, Poilievre is too much into loud political mudslinging at others, and seeking applause.
Like a primary modus operandi of dragging others/opponents down with it ("beating them with experience"); not exactly a role model, and he's seemingly not going that way.
I'm not getting an impression of bona fides concern, trustworthiness, strength/ability to stand up to others, including foreign.
The politics, which should be the topic I suppose, are the usual these days, some go "left", some go "right", ..., shopping at the political supermarket.
Maybe "nuisance" wasn't the right word, apologies for that.

The Democrats need to get their act together all year round. The time and energy of electioneering activists harnessed not just in door-to-door and phone calls. I don't really know how it works or what really goes on to help people at ground level. Just giving my impressions of out-of-touch leaders and politicians. — Amity

Actually, the Biden administration [url]http://accomplished quite a lot for the people.* Remember, they came in after a disastrous Trump-administered pandemic and civil unrest and still made so much progress. (It's a longish article, and will probably disappear as soon as one of the trumpets learns of it.)

But, while Trump was out rabble-rousing and chest-thumping for those three years (he basically never stopped campaigning since 2008.), they just got on with the job, and the big broadcast networks kept it all very quiet. They really do need to speak up, celebrate their successes and stay in touch with the grass roots between elections.

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. As always, your posts are substantive and thought-provoking. Helping to keep me - and others - engaged with your engaging approach. :flower:

OK, thanks. I now have a better understanding of Canadian politics than I did first thing this morning! :sparkle:

No. I didn't realise the importance of politics until late in life. I found it boring.
I only knew that Tories were bad! I didn't have that education that is sorely needed. — Amity

I think this is absolutely crucial for the whole system of democracy to work. It's not boring and above all, it's crucial that people actually do have a link to the actual political system. I don't think people especially at the communal level are weasels or are trying to make a career out of it. It's many times that these people have more of a duty. So if the conservatives are bad, then meet your local labour, go really to listen to them.

I cannot overstate the effect of what it means to really have a small discussion about political issues as we have here with members of parliament. They usually are quite sane and far more intelligent and aware than you get from the media.

Far too easily politics and those involved in it carry like a stigma. At worst, they really in the Third World are thugs, who use violence. It's the alienation of people from the system that drives them to people like Trump or the populists, who depict other parties as the enemy.

One crucial issue is that you can talk about politics even with strangers. That's the first thing that happen in real authoritarian regimes: nobody talks politics. It's far too dangerous.