• DifferentiatingEgg
    695
    I know, I know, it sounds edgy af... oooo the bad booooy. But obviously Nietzsche had his own values...

    Nietzsche's an immoralist, not because he'd suggest torturing innocent child for fun is a "Good" thing... he fashioned himself into an immoralist to allow Zarathustra to overcome himself in his opposite. (EH, Fatality § 3)

    Both the noble and resessentiment moralities have their danger. The danger of the noble moralities is in part when they allow for conditions to get so bad that a life-denying morality of ressentiment is even spawned.

    When one overcomes the other in their opposite they continue to consider and incite each other to higher and higher evaluations of life...

    Nietzsche became Zarathustra's Opposite to act as a saoshyant. This was part of his chosen purpose in life. To become the Anti-Saoshyant aka the "Anti-Christ."

    And certainly not because he hated Christ, he modeled the Ubermensch based off his psychological evaluation of the account of the life of Christ based off the Gospels. (AC 33 & 39)

    Nietzsche worked towards giving the purest form and psychology of Christ(ianity) back to the people, in a secularized format, in a world after the "death of God."

    Fyi that's not a literal claim either. The death of God is a metaphor...
  • Gregory
    5k


    Nietzsche died as God and will rise as Christ. The summation of life is the return of matter to spiritual axis it was thrown from
  • Joshs
    6.3k

    Nietzsche worked towards giving the purest form and psychology of Christ(ianity) back to the people, in a secularized format, in a world after the "death of God."

    Fyi that's not a literal claim either. The death of God is a metaphor...
    DifferentiatingEgg

    The death of god was just the preview. The death of man was what Nietzsche was after, a post-humanist world beyond a morality of blame.
  • DifferentiatingEgg
    695
    Meh, we will have to disagree from nuance in perspective... Sure sure ...
    The most careful ask to-day: “How is man to be maintained?” Zarathustra however asketh, as the first and only one: “How is man to be SURPASSED?”

    The Superman, I have at heart; THAT is the first and only thing to me—and NOT man
    — Zarathustra

    But what is Man to Nietzsche?

    Zarathustra defines as strictly as possible what to him alone "man" can be,—not a subject for love nor yet for pity—Zarathustra became master even of his loathing of man: man is to him a thing unshaped, raw material, an ugly stone that needs the sculptor's chisel... — Nietzsche, Ecce Homo

    Away from God and Gods did this will allure me; what would there be to create if there were—Gods!

    But to man doth it ever impel me anew, my fervent creative will; thus impelleth it the hammer to the stone.

    Ah, ye men, within the stone slumbereth an image for me, the image of my visions! Ah, that it should slumber in the hardest, ugliest stone!

    Now rageth my hammer ruthlessly against its prison. From the stone fly the fragments: what’s that to me?

    I will complete it: for a shadow came unto me—the stillest and lightest of all things once came unto me!

    The beauty of the Superman came unto me as a shadow. Ah, my brethren! Of what account now are—the Gods to me!—
    — Zarathustra

    What is the only time in which Nietzsche points directly to the Superman becoming reality?

    See how Zarathustra goes down from the mountain and speaks the kindest words to every one! See with what delicate fingers he touches his very adversaries, the priests, and how he suffers with them from themselves! Here, at every moment, man is overcome, and the concept "Superman" becomes the greatest reality,—out of sight, almost far away beneath him, lies all that which heretofore has been called great in man.  — Nietzsche, Ecce Homo

    Or more precisely "und mit ihnen an ihnen leidet" to over come the animal compulsion to destroy but rather suffer with them from them... IE to "Suffer the fool," said Mr. Z "not pity the fool, Mr. T!"...

    And the final nail in the coffin is from solving the riddles from The Vision and the Enigma within TSZ... we can clearly see the transformed being is one who overcomes their bad conscience, their shame and guilt...

    And verily, what I saw, the like had I never seen. A young shepherd did I see, writhing, choking, quivering, with distorted countenance, and with a heavy black serpent hanging out of his mouth.

    Had I ever seen so much loathing and pale horror on one countenance? He had perhaps gone to sleep? Then had the serpent crawled into his throat—there had it bitten itself fast.

    My hand pulled at the serpent, and pulled:—in vain! I failed to pull the serpent out of his throat. Then there cried out of me: “Bite! Bite!

    Its head off! Bite!”—so cried it out of me; my horror, my hatred, my loathing, my pity, all my good and my bad cried with one voice out of me
    .—

    Ye daring ones around me! Ye venturers and adventurers, and whoever of you have embarked with cunning sails on unexplored seas! Ye enigma-enjoyers!

    Solve unto me the enigma that I then beheld, interpret unto me the vision of the lonesomest one!

    For it was a vision and a foresight:—WHAT did I then behold in parable? And WHO is it that must come some day?

    WHO is the shepherd into whose throat the serpent thus crawled? WHO is the man into whose throat all the heaviest and blackest will thus crawl?

    —The shepherd however bit as my cry had admonished him; he bit with a strong bite! Far away did he spit the head of the serpent—: and sprang up.—

    No longer shepherd, no longer man—a transfigured being, a light-surrounded being, that LAUGHED! Never on earth laughed a man as HE laughed!
    — Zarathustra

    So, I think, I'll have to go with the greater nuance of my understanding...

    And by the way... WHO IS THE SHEPHERD?... Well none other than ...

    A light hath dawned upon me. Not to the people is Zarathustra to speak, but to companions! Zarathustra shall not be the herd’s herdsman and hound! — Zarathustra

    He says this after hiding his "dead" "companion" or rather a metaphor for Nietzsche himself...the transformation of himself in his opposite. The following is a further example...

    People have never asked me as they should have done, what the name of Zarathustra precisely meant in my mouth, in the mouth of the first immoralist... Have I made myself clear? ... The overcoming of morality by itself, through truthfulness, the moralist's overcoming of himself in his opposite—in me—that is what the name Zarathustra means in my mouth. — Nietzsche, Ecce Homo, Fatality § 3
  • Joshs
    6.3k


    I have in mind Deleuze’s reading of the transition from the death of god to the last man:


    The reactive life strives for a long time to secrete its own values, the reactive man takes the place of God: adaptation, evolution, progress, happiness for all and the good of the community; the God-man, the moral man, the truthful man and the social man. These are the new values that are recommended in place of higher values, these are the new characters proposed in place of God. The last men still say: "We have invented happiness" (Z Prologue 5). Why would man have killed God, if not to take his still warm seat?

    Heidegger remarks, commenting on Nietzsche, "if God . . . has disappeared from his authoritative position in the suprasensory world, then this authoritative place itself is still always preserved, even though as that which has become empty. The now-empty authoritative realm of the suprasensory and the ideal world can still be adhered to. What is more, the empty place demands to be occupied anew and to have the god now vanished from it replaced by something else".

    Moreover it is always the same type of life which benefits from the depreciation of the whole of life in the first place, the type of life which took advantage of the will to nothingness in order to obtain its victory, the type of life which triumphed in the temples of God, in the shadow of higher values. Then, secondly, the type of life which puts itself in God's place, which turns against the principle of its own triumph and no longer recognises values other than its own. Finally, the exhausted life which prefers to not will, to fade away passively, rather than being animated by a will which goes beyond it.

    This still is and always remains the same type of life; life depreciated, reduced to its reactive form. Values can change, be renewed or even disappear. What does not change and does not disappear is the nihilistic perspective which governs this history from beginning to end and from which all these values (as well as their absence) arise. This is why Nietzsche can think that nihilism is not an event in history but the motor of the history of man as universal history. Negative, reactive and passive nihilism: for Nietzsche one and the same history is marked out by Judaism, Christianity, the reformation, free thought, democratic and socialist ideology etc. Up until the last man.

    Nietzsche became Zarathustra's Opposite to act as a saoshyant. This was part of his chosen purpose in life. To become the Anti-Saoshyant aka the "Anti-Christ."

    And certainly not because he hated Christ, he modeled the Ubermensch based off his psychological evaluation of the account of the life of Christ based off the Gospels. (AC 33 & 39)
    DifferentiatingEgg

    Deleuze interprets Nietzsche as viewing Christ as offering a passive nihilism comparable to Buddhism.

    He gave passive nihilism a certain nobility where men were still at the stage of negative nihilism, when reactive nihilism had hardly begun. Beyond bad conscience and ressentiment Jesus gave the reactive man a lesson: he taught him to die. He was the gentlest of the decadents, the most interesting (AC 31). Christ was neither Jew nor Christian but Buddhist; nearer the Dalai Lama than the Pope.
  • DifferentiatingEgg
    695
    Nietzsche discusses Christ in AC, and regardless of the madness of Christ he discusses... we can see from AC 33, all the qualities of Jesus that Nietzsche utilized in his equation of the Ubermensch. So with Jesus as the basis of the Ubermensch and Amor Fati as a style of the Glad Tidings of Jesus Christ. Can compared AC 39 with GS 276 or is it 271 (the one ob Amor Fati). I can't say I agree with Deleuze on that.
  • Gregory
    5k


    Yes Jesus was a decadent for Nietszche, extremely kind and consistently caring but ultimately a compromized Jew. Nietzsche admired strength above all else, much like Trump. Nietzsche's was free falling down the same hole Hegel set for himself and him, the idea that in a sense everything is itself and it's opposite. Everything becomes a game of statistics, and there is no ground of being because everything is relative. THE hardest thing to grasp in philosophy may be that everything is relative and that this is not refuted by saying " well is it relative that everything is relative". But some things are more true than others. Loving your neighbor is better than hating him, although hate has it's place at times. Descartes's dream of finding the ground that sits forever unmoved was a false dream
  • DifferentiatingEgg
    695
    I disagree. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what will to power is... yes Nietzsche admires strength but for Nietzsche strength is formed by overcoming oneself, not domination, and most certainly not resentful or divisive like Trump.

    The will to power is a sensation, it is that electricity that rushes down your spine, that feeling that fills you when you overcome some struggle or another... could be you discovered a new artistic technique that allows you to overcome and create your artistic vision in reality...

    We can clearly see from Nietzsche's Amor Fati that waging war with what you find ugly is of no interest to Nietzsche, not even saying No. GS 276 And we can see that Nietzsche details this Amor Fati style of life by Jesus Christ and his Glad Tidings in AC 33. Furthermore from 33 we have several ways that Jesus transvaluates values to live towards his own evaluations, rather than that of the Semites, he lists several of these psychological evaluations and they're all found within the psychology of type who emulate an Ubermensch (EH § 1 of Excellent Books[refrencing Ubermensch as a type]).

    The only time Nietzsche ever even points to the superman becoming a reality is in Ecce Homo, and he states it's when Zarathustra comes down from the mountain and treats even his adversaries with sincere kindness while suffering with them from them ..."Und mit ihnen an ihnen leidet" (EH § 6 on Thus Spoke Zarathustra)


    if God . . . has disappeared from his authoritative position in the suprasensory world, then this authoritative place itself is still always preserved, even though as that which has become empty.

    The New Idol fills that spot. The problem with saying "Christianity" as Christ in the negative sense for Nietzsche comes in at AC 39...


    —I shall go back a bit, and tell you the authentic history of Christianity.—The very word “Christianity” is a misunderstanding—at bottom there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross. The “Gospels” died on the cross. What, from that moment onward, was called the “Gospels” was the very reverse of what he had lived: “bad tidings,” a Dysangelium. It is an error amounting to nonsensicality to see in “faith,” and particularly in faith in salvation through Christ, the distinguishing mark of the Christian: only the Christian way of life, the life lived by him who died on the cross, is Christian.... To this day such a life is still possible, and for certain men even necessary: genuine, primitive Christianity will remain possible in all ages.... Not faith, but acts; above all, an avoidance of acts, a different state of being.... States of consciousness, faith of a sort, the acceptance, for example, of anything as true— — Nietzsche, AC 39

    This is in part why Foucault discusses Nietzsche as giving Christ back the image of the ultimate in life affirming grace. (Madness and Civ pg. 78-79). Because the Earthquake at Port Royal was all omg it's Sodom and Gomorrah all over again ... for the next 200 years.
  • Gregory
    5k


    Great thread. I'm in the middle of reading Beyond Good and Evil for the 4rth time. His several pages on the female race is priceless. Trump is having too much fun to give up power; Nietszche wanted to be a bully, i think, but in the end just gave a kiss, even if to just a horse
  • DifferentiatingEgg
    695
    Read it more carefully.

    86. In the background of all their personal vanity, women themselves have still their impersonal scorn—for "woman"

    You'll see quite clearly Nietzsche knows how to differentiate between women and this "woman" that women have scorn for...

    The same "woman" Nietzsche discusses in BGE 232-239. I always found it weird that readers cant differentiate between the two... he literally uses an A instead of an E. The trick is noticing when he says woman is blah blah blah it's not women are it's about "woman." The Semitic ideal of woman...
  • Gregory
    5k


    The human brain has its mammal structures, and fish and reptilian strucures too i believe, from evolution. It is also divided into two sides, although they work in combination, and it uses the chemical neurotransmiters serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephren to create time-space experiences. Dopamine is what fun feels like. Natural satisfaction. Serotonin and norepinephrin have spiritual potential in them, i would argue. Literally these chemicals the rest of the brain uses to help us live quality lives. Furthermore, females and males use their brains differently. Even female scientists think differently with different categories than their male counter-parts. This is what i like about Nietszche: he makes women seem so different from men, putting emphasis on their different bodily neural ontologies.

    Have you ever subjectively notices that your right eye is worked by the left brain, while the left eye is controlled by the right brain. At least that is how it feels. This is how we can make facial expressions. I don't know if men and women can expressed the same number of face expressions. I read somewhere or other that the human face can make like 7000 different kinds of microexpressions. I might be getting that number wrong, but it was in the thousands. It is often said that women think with their emotions. The right brain or something...
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