Is the number pi beyond our grasp? — frank

It's an irrational number after all.

Pi = the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.

My mind tells me one of the main revelations of pi is the picture of the straight line of the diameter surrounded by the encircling circumference. This juxtaposition shows concisely that the rectilinearity (straight-lining) of science is only partially commensurable with the curvilinearity (curving) of nature.

The straight lines infinitesimal of the analysis of calculus can only approximate nature's reality.

Science is nature-adjacent rather than natural.

As technology diminishes and displaces nature, humanity rejiggers itself out of mysterious existence into self-reflection. The trick of AI and SAI is baking in a component of mystery and a component of error. Mystery and error support otherness, a component essential to forestalling the cognitive suffocation of an enclosing self-reflection.

Intentional mystery and error preserve the irrationality pictured by pi.

We must pull on and push against the idea our natural world is full mystery and error because some prior race of sentients understood the essential importance of forestalling cognitive suffocation. Having original sin in the mix is better than the damnation of perfection.

Against utopia!

Is the number pi beyond our grasp? — frank

Well, here we are, talking about π - so, no, it is not beyond our grasp...

At least for some of us.

And what that AI describes as "the philosophy of Pi", isn't - any more than are the outbreaks of verse that sometimes litter these fora. Fluffy nonsense, like knowing the millionth digit of Pi. (5, according to Wolfram Alpha).

Well, here we are, talking about π - so, no, it is not beyond our grasp... — Banno

Just as the index finger can grasp the coffee cup by the little handle, the mind grasps pi by the bits we know.

I didn't realize that quote in the OP came from an AI. :lol: Don't worry, it was just a thought that popped up while I was cleaning house.

Well, here we are, talking about π - so, no, it is not beyond our grasp... — Banno

That's what I first thought -- and not just talking about pi, but knowing what we're talking about in saying pi.

Pi = the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. — ucarr

What else could "grasping" consist in such that we don't grasp pi in the manner @ucarr says above?

There could be something deep in there --

What do we do with numbers like pi that go on forever? — frank

I'd suggest we stop at the point we are satisfied, while knowing that the procedure can carry on.

Indeed, what is it that we do not grasp? That we might not know the trillionth digit? (Wolfram was no help...) But knowing that Pi is the smallest positive number where the sine function is equal to zero - that's cool.

What else could "grasping" consist in such that we don't grasp pi in the manner @ucarr says above? — Moliere

Yep.

I'd suggest we stop at the point we are satisfied, while knowing that the procedure can carry on. — Moliere

Stop which - the calculation, or the thread?

Stop which - the calculation, or the thread? — Banno

Well, it must be the calculation since the thread will never satisfy -- given how often we go past the point of explanation here :D

Indeed, I think we could go on for another few pages at least. doesn't appear to have seen the joke, for a start.

We shall overcome, though. Unless we throw spanners in.

My comment is the joke. That it's hard for you to understand, well, I can understand that. Nietzsche too is hard for you to grasp.

Well, you responding in this manner makes me wonder if I understand the joke?

I'm guessing we all pretty much get the joke?

Which joke - that π is beyond our grasp or that Nietzsche is difficult?

My joke is rimshot cheese shit eating grin opportunity strikes... yours and Banno's joke is different and I definitely didn't think about it at all, until being pinged by Banno.

To keep my annoying persona, I must say both-and :D

I didn't mean that up front though. And find:

My joke is rimshot cheese shit eating grin opportunity strikes... yours and Banno's joke is different and I definitely didn't think about it at all, until being pinged by Banno. — DifferentiatingEgg

A refreshing change of pace.

Well, here we are, talking about π - so, no, it is not beyond our grasp...

At least for some of us.

And what that AI describes as "the philosophy of Pi", isn't - any more than are the outbreaks of verse that sometimes litter these fora. Fluffy nonsense, like knowing the millionth digit of Pi — Banno

I'll take as the original joke. Not beyond our grasp, though there are some of us... -- it's a rimshot joke.

Though if forced I'd say that the litter of outbreaks in verse on these fora are closer to philosophy than the nonsense of the AI bots.

Which joke - that π is beyond our grasp — Banno

It's not a joke. It goes on forever, so you can never know it completely.

Wasn't it already obvious that we could never know anything completely? Pi is not the lynchpin it seems, just another symptom of our limitations.

Wasn't it already obvious that we could never know anything completely? — Janus

I didn't get that memo. Why not?

I shouldn't think you would need a memo.

It's not a joke. It goes on forever, so you can never know it completely. — frank

Yeah we can. the ratio of the radius to the circumference of a circle; that is it exactly and entirely. There are other ways to say the same thing, such as the aforementioned mentioned smallest positive number where the sine function is equal to zero or π=ln(−1)/i from Euler's identity or Cd/2LP for Buffon’s Needle or any number of other neat-o calculations.

↪frank Wasn't it already obvious that we could never know anything completely? — Janus

You are completely correct...

or not.

Well, according to I need memos.

Well, that's another joke, because he sure fooled you and your homeboy Russel...

Yeah we can. the ratio of the radius tot eh circumference of a circle; that i it exactly and entirely. There are other ways to say the same thing, such as the aforementioned mentioned smallest positive number where the sine function is equal to zero or π=ln(−1)/i from Euler's identity or Cd/2LP for Buffon’s Needle or any number of other neat-o calculations. — Banno

Funny thing is, if I'd started a thread that said we can know pi in its entirety, you would have said that ridiculous. :confused:

What are you saying? That pi never ends?

You're right, we can perhaps know some things completely. But we cannot know everything. so 'everything' should have been there instead of "anything completely".

there is no true way to express pi is all...

Funny thing is, if I'd started a thread that said we can know pi in its entirety, you would have said that ridiculous. :confused: — frank

:lol:

True, that.

And you would have been right, just as you are right now. :D

Memos? I thought it was @frank mentioned them.

there is no true way to expresa pi is all... — DifferentiatingEgg

There's no way to know all the digits that go on it. I think you can express the concept by just saying "pi."

What's it matter? We're grasping pi...