It was working a dam sight better than when Trump started throwing his weight around.
Now we even have Saudi and Gulf states showing sympathy with Iran. Netanyahu will blow up the whole Middle East and the Orange man will just stand by and it will never occur to him what part he played in it.

The International Atomic Energy Agency declared on Thursday that Iran was not complying with its nuclear nonproliferation obligations, the first time the U.N. watchdog has passed a resolution against the country in 20 years — New York Times

. here

This wasn't caused by Trump. The fact that Iran has been spending billions of dollars to be the Mid East's biggest pain in the ass is not Trump's fault.

Yes, but before Trump’s first term in office the Iranians were moving very slowly towards nuclear weapons. This stepped up as soon as Trump tore up the carefully constructed deal when he came into office in 2016.

Yes, but before Trump’s first term in office the Iranians were moving very slowly towards nuclear weapons. This stepped up as soon as Trump tore up the carefully constructed deal when he came into office in 2016. — Punshhh

How do you know that?

I don’t have anything I can point to just now. But at the time there was a lot of discussion about it and subsequently lots of discussion about what they were up to in Iran, long before the Ukraine and Gaza wars.

will never occur to him what part he played in it. — Punshhh

Good point.

The Iran deal was working, and Trump of course handled it with the same care and expertise he used to run his casinos. With equal success.

He blew it up because it was Obama’s. Never caring about what it really was or what the consequences would be. Much like he tried to do with Obamacare, or NAFTA, or now the IRA. Stupid, stupid decisions based on ephemeral Fox & Friends soundbites.

I don’t have anything I can point to just now. But at the time there was a lot of discussion about it and subsequently lots of discussion about what they were up to in Iran, long before the Ukraine and Gaza wars. — Punshhh

Iran did ballistic missile testing the year after the JCPOA agreement. This is an article from NPR (read it while there's still an NPR) :smile:

The missiles they launched in 2017 were capable of delivering nuclear weapons. Israeli intelligence found documentation of secret plans for nuclear weapons in 2003, this was later confirmed by the IAEA. In short, we know Iran is committed to the destruction of Israel., we know they have secret underground development facilities, we know they violated the JCPOA regarding missile development prior to the withdrawal by Trump. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to say the present situation is the fault of Donald Trump. It's the fault of Iranians who will absolutely not be peaceful neighbors in the Middle East, along with Netanyahu.

Yes it is a tinder box, which is why players shouldn’t play with matches.

Yes it is a tinder box, which is why players shouldn’t play with matches. — Punshhh

Yes. The US isn't in charge of the region. It's their thing.

First thing about this war, which should be obvious to everybody:

Israel and Iran are separated by a long distance and thus there is no ability for the land forces to engage each other. Especially after the fall of the Syrian Assad regime, the proxy war will be fought in Lebanon. The Houthis can strike Israel with few missiles if any and don't pose any threat. Hence Israel (and the US, naturally) is hellbent to get UNIFIL out of the way and start again a landwar in Lebanon (see Israel, US agree to cease UNIFIL ops. in southern Lebanon).

This is also the reason for Israel to engage in this military action against Iran. Why not? There's no capable Arab military that will join the fight, so have this war with the IDF making long range strikes and the Iranians shooting their missiles and drones.

In the end it comes down to combat survivability with Iran and air defence with Israel. As long the missile defense works, no problem for Israel. As long that Iran endure the barrage, no problem either.

Bibi might think that this will last for weeks and then both US and Israeli intelligence will give him the good news that Iran's ability to create a nuclear deterrent is only now a dream.

The reality might be something different. But then again, if Iran cannot do anything, then comes the question if the whole Iranian bluster has been as stupid as Saddam Hussein was to his country with trying to say that actually he did have a working nuclear program when he didn't.

In a widening of its military campaign against Iran, Israel targeted Iran’s critical energy infrastructure at gas and petrochemical refineries on Saturday, according to a statement from Iran’s oil ministry.

The statement said Israeli drones had targeted a section of the South Pars Gas Field in Bushehr Province. South Pars is one of the world’s largest gas fields and a critical part of Iran’s energy production. The Fajr Jam Gas Refining Company was also targeted, the ministry said — NY Times

@Count Timothy von Icarus

Is Israel going for regime change?

Likely they just want to bomb it back to the 1980's. They'll surely go for the (oil) infrastructure after they have finished with the nuclear weapons program.

Likely they just want to bomb it back to the 1980's. They'll surely go for the (oil) infrastructure after they have finished with the nuclear weapons program. — ssu

Israel did that today.

Israel did that today. — frank

Well, I don't think that Iran is economically back in the 1980's yet.

Even if you have had 200 combat aircraft attack Iran.

They said that Israel used the drone-on-trucks technique, the same thing Ukraine did just a few weeks earlier, both of which took years of planning. Is the common denominator between these two parties the CIA? Mossad?

Well, I don't think that Iran is economically back in the 1980's yet. — ssu

No, I meant they attacked oil and gas refineries today.

Iran's nuclear facilities are in mountain bunkers built deep underground, designed to withstand everything up to a nuclear weapon.

Israel simply does not have the capacity to do anywhere near the type of damage they're boasting about, nor does the US have capacity to spare to make up the difference.

This was in all likelihood principally an attempt at decapitation, meant to force regime change in Iran.

The first strike seems to have failed to accomplish this, and the Iranians are showing they do not fear retaliation by Israel or the US by striking directly at Tel Aviv. This is a very telling sign.

It remains to be seen what else the Israelis have up their sleeve, but if this is it, then it's going to be a very costly dud. Neither Israel nor the US can afford to commit fully unless some huge initial success is achieved. The longer the campaign takes, the slimmer the chances of such success.

You don't have to go to war for it, just pass the BBB.

Interesting that nobody has anything to say about the blatant breach of international law. There's no sensible interpretation that this was self defence. The only thing Israel does (every time) is prove the hypocrisy of the West thereby undermining the legal order countries agreed to follow. Or course, as the strongest bully in the area, they are very much in favour of no legal order so that they can finalise their conquest of Palestine. As long as the USA is strongest, the same benefits apply to them: they can do whatever they want.

It makes me wonder how much this really is strategy to get rid of the fetters of international law.

It makes me wonder how much this really is strategy to get rid of the fetters of international law.

International law has been a fragile thing held together by the international bodies. It wasn’t going to survive a breakdown in the coalition of the West. All the authoritarian rulers and oligarchs will be happy to see the end of it.
There may be a bigger picture here. Analysts will have been telling them that the climate crisis is going to hit big time over the next century. There is going to be mass emigration, starvation, food and water shortages. Large areas of the planet will become uninhabitable. Inevitably the rich and powerful will be scrabbling to shield themselves and their groups from the chaos. I see the rise in authoritarianism as a symptom of this. Also there will soon be fights over resources, this is already starting to play out.

Iran has been deliberately targeting civilian areas, and I'm wondering whether international organizations will say anything. Seems like a war crime.

The first strike seems to have failed to accomplish this, and the Iranians are showing they do not fear retaliation by Israel or the US by striking directly at Tel Aviv. This is a very telling sign. — Tzeentch

Why aren't they attacking U.S. bases in the region? There's no Iron Dome protecting them.

Iran has been deliberately targeting civilian areas, and I'm wondering whether international organizations will say anything. Seems like a war crime. — BitconnectCarlos

We did the same thing in WW2.

The Allies did some very questionable things in WWII. We also didn't have precision targeting capabilities back then. Israel has kept its strikes in Iran to regime figures.

The Allies did some very questionable things in WWII. We also didn't have precision targeting capabilities back then. Israel has kept its strikes in Iran to regime figures. — BitconnectCarlos

We had the Norden bombsight, which was precision at the time (turned out to not be very good). We used that a lot, but we also did a lot of indiscriminate bombing, esp. in Japan. Iran doesn't have a superpower in their corner gifting them billions a year, so they can't really target anything specifically in Israel and are hitting back the way the Brits did in WW2, by hitting cities. I don't fault Iran for that. It's war, they're going to hit back, that's expected. Also, it appears Israel is attacking more than just military targets.

Pundits have been arguing that Trump’s diplomatic efforts were a ruse to deceive Iran, leaving them with their guard down and vulnerable to attack. But diplomacy isn’t dead and both Iran and US is still willing to make a deal.

If war is diplomacy by other means, diplomacy is never finished. While Israel and Iran are in the midst of what could be an extended war that could spread, the possibility of renewed talks to deal with Iran’s expanding nuclear program should not be discounted.

Negotiations are on hold while the war continues, and the future of diplomacy is far from clear. Iran will feel compelled to respond to Israel, and the Israeli campaign could last for days or weeks. For now Washington does not appear to be doing anything to press both sides to stop the violence and start talking again.

But the Iranians say they still want a deal, as does President Trump. The shape of future talks will inevitably depend on when and how the fighting stops.

“We are prepared for any agreement aimed at ensuring Iran does not pursue nuclear weapons,” the Iranian foreign minister, Abbas Araghchi, told foreign diplomats in Tehran on Sunday. But his country would not accept any deal that “deprives Iran of its nuclear rights,” he added, including the right to enrich uranium, albeit at low levels that can be used for civilian purposes.

Mr. Araghchi said Israel did not attack to pre-empt Iran’s race toward a bomb, which Iran denies trying to develop, but to derail negotiations on a deal that Mr. Netanyahu opposes.

The attacks are “an attempt to undermine diplomacy and derail negotiations,” he continued, a view shared by various Western analysts. “It is entirely clear that the Israeli regime does not want any agreement on the nuclear issue,” he said. “It does not want negotiations and does not seek diplomacy.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/15/world/middleeast/diplomacy-with-iran-is-damaged-not-dead.html

Could the theory that Netanyahu attacked Iran to undermine diplomatic efforts be true? After all, they did attack just days before talks were supposed to happen.

they can't really target anything specifically in Israel and are hitting back the way the Brits did in WW2, by hitting cities. I don't fault Iran for that. — RogueAI

Well, it is a war crime to target civilian areas. If Israel were firing rockets from these apartment complexes, that's one thing, but it's a war crime to engage in that type of indiscriminate bombing as Iran has been doing.

Standards of warfare change.

Israel’s foreign minister, Gideon Saar, told CNN on Sunday that “The goal is not a regime change. The cabinet had decided on the objectives, it was not one of the objectives. This is for the Iranian people to decide.” — NY Times

Well, there you go.

Well, it is a war crime to target civilian areas — BitconnectCarlos

Dude.