• Truth Seeker
    897
    I struggle to make choices. I constantly second-guess myself. I often wish I had made different choices than the ones I made. What is the best way to make choices?
  • kindred
    185
    Choices can vary in scope, scale and magnitude and consequences should be considered before making them. Consider an individual making a choice of whether to have tea or coffee in the morning or whether to have an abortion or not. One is almost inconsequential the other potentially life changing so more thought and deliberation should be given to it.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    Thank you for your helpful reply. How would one assess whether to have an abortion or not? What if it is not legal where one lives? Should they go to another country where it is legal and have it there? Should they carry the foetus and give birth, then put the baby up for adoption? What is the right thing to do? How would one know?
  • Tom Storm
    10k
    I constantly second-guess myself.Truth Seeker

    Do you know why this happens? Are you haunted by previous errors?

    I often wish I had made different choices than the ones I madeTruth Seeker

    What would be an example of this?

    What is the best way to make choices?Truth Seeker

    I've never really given it much thought. I just make choices and go with them. Sometimes I regret a decision, but not often. I'm trying to understand what kinds of choices typically lead to regret. Is it things like having children, getting married, or deciding where to live? But day-to-day choices don’t seem to matter much, even if the outcome is disappointing. Maybe I just don’t make very important choices very often.

    How would one assess whether to have an abortion or not?Truth Seeker

    Is this one you are mulling over, or a hypothetical?
  • kindred
    185


    The abortion one is just an example of a type of choice. And yes legalities should be considered or discarded, it depends on the individual if they want to go the legal route in their jurisdiction.

    The point is choices should be made on the basis of yielding a positive outcome for oneself and others (if it affects others) this may sometimes mean making difficult choices in the beginning for better rewards later.

    There are factors involved when making choices and these are often a matter of personal preference.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    Do you know why this happens? Are you haunted by previous errors?Tom Storm
    This happens because I am haunted by previous errors. If I had known how things would turn out, I would have chosen differently.

    What would be an example of this?Tom Storm
    I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.

    Is it things like having children, getting married, or deciding where to live?Tom Storm
    All of them and many more.

    Is this one you are mulling over or a hypothetical?Tom Storm

    This is a hypothetical.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    There are factors involved when making choices and these are often a matter of personal preference.kindred

    How would I know what personal preference I should have? It's not always clear if the outcome would be positive for me and others. For example, I am on the NHS Organ Donation Register. I have been on it since May 1997. If I were to kill myself, it would end my constant suffering (due to Bipolar Disorder, CPTSD and chronic pain) and save the lives of those who need organs to live. So, should I kill myself? I am certain that my parents would be very upset if I killed myself. That's one of the reasons I haven't yet killed myself.
  • kindred
    185
    How would I know what personal preference I should have?Truth Seeker

    Matter of personal taste. You might have a preference of one thing over the other.

    In terms of suicide of why you should stay alive it breaks down to practicality and it’s something out of my remit to advise on personal choices and circumstances.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    In terms of suicide of why you should stay alive it breaks down to practicality and it’s something out of my remit to advise on personal choices and circumstances.kindred

    My goal is to save and improve as many lives as possible. Obviously, suicide doesn't save my life, but it does end my suffering, which is a kind of improvement. Also, my donated organs will save the lives of others. Don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one? Although my suicide would cause suffering to those who love me. Also, it would prevent any future good deeds by me, e.g. I have donated blood many times.
  • Banno
    27.8k
    You should understand that you are not alone in any of this. Not that knowing this makes it any easier, but it might take away some of the stigma.

    I very much like the approach set out by Terry Pratchett in Lords And Ladies. I've mentioned it a few times hereabouts. The witch Granny Weatherwax meets her one-time lover, the wizard Mustrum Ridcully. Ridcully is full of "might-have-beens"...

    ‘Do you remember—’
    ‘I have a … very good memory, thank you.’
    ‘Do you ever wonder what life would have been like if you’d said yes?’ said Ridcully.
    ‘No.’
    ‘I suppose we’d have settled down, had children, grandchildren, that sort of thing …’
    Granny shrugged. It was the sort of thing romantic idiots said. But there was something in the air tonight …
    ‘What about the fire?’ she said.
    ‘What fire?’
    ‘Swept through our house just after we were married. Killed us both.’
    ‘What fire? I don’t know anything about any fire?’
    Granny turned around.
    ‘Of course not! It didn’t happen. But the point is, it might have happened. You can’t say “if this didn’t happen then that would have happened” because you don’t know everything that might have happened. You might think something’d be good, but for all you know it could have turned out horrible. You can’t say “If only I’d …” because you could be wishing for anything. The point is, you’ll never know. You’ve gone past. So there’s no use thinking about it. So I don’t.’
    — Terry Pratchet

    Pratchett, Terry. Lords And Ladies: (Discworld Novel 14) (Discworld series) (pp. 162-163).

    Counterfactuals are recondite. You can’t say “if this didn’t happen then that would have happened” because you don’t know everything that might have happened. In your case you can't say how things would have been had you followed your parent's advice, any more than Ridcully could be sure that if he had made a different decision he would have lived happily every after.

    More likely, you would be equally discontent but with a different set of issues.

    "You can’t say “if this didn’t happen then that would have happened” because you don’t know everything that might have happened."
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    More likely, you would be equally discontent but with a different set of issues.Banno

    I agree with you. Wouldn't it have been better if I had never existed at all?
  • kindred
    185


    Well you can save and improve many lives by staying alive. This is obviously a sensitive topic and I feel I’m not qualified to advise given your predicament, and whilst you view the termination of your life as selfless in terms of organ donation I feel it’s too much responsibility for you to take on by yourself. Instead cherish the good moments in the everyday and if practical with the help of pain reducing medication aim to reduce the pain your going through.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    I use heat therapy (e.g. electric blanket, heat patches, hot water bottle, etc.) to reduce the intensity of the pain, as pain-relieving medications for chronic nerve pain make my Bipolar Disorder worse.
  • Banno
    27.8k
    Wouldn't it have been better if I had never existed at all?Truth Seeker

    Well, if Granny Weatherwax is right, we can't possibly know what the world would be like if you never existed.

    It just is as it is.

    I suppose the upshot is that choices are about what happens next, not about what happened in the past.

    Perhaps the hardest part of living with disability is the constant struggle to improve, to advocate for oneself, to find better ways of doing things. Every small step is so very hard. Sisyphus had it easy in comparison, at least he knew what would happen next.

    Stuff that those not living with disability can never grasp.

    Seems to me that the key is other people. Keep reaching out. And keep in mind that while you don't know what will happen next, sometimes things get better.

    You are welcome to PM me.
  • Tom Storm
    10k
    I'm sure I don't need to tell you that mental health is an extremely complex matter. I can't really provide any advice to you.
  • hypericin
    1.7k
    Great topic. This is something that plagues me as well. In fact our stories are not dissimilar, I too took psychiatric medications that have caused me a lifetime of regret. I too wonder what life could have been had i not made this terrible choice.

    Sartre said that man is condemned to be free. We, me you and others with these thoughts, feel this condemnation in this way. Life can seem a nightmare welter of decisions. Every moment a decision, both ones we make directly, and the many more we make passively, by omission.

    There is a kind of horror to it. Our minds seem woefully inadequate to the task of computing the myriad of factors that are necessary to decide peven relatively trivial things. For instance, you mentioned choosing where to live. A good choice grants relative happiness, thriving, tranquility. Whereas a bad choice can cause discomfort, unease, unhappiness, a relative failure to grow and thrive. A weighty choice, never made with adequate information, nor with a mind capable of accurately extrapolating this information into the future.

    And that is mundane and inconsequential. Consider how magnified the decisions of whether to marry, with whom, whether to have kids are. And these are still routine decisions on the scale of individual lives, which most of us must make. All these are lifetime inflection points. On one side lies one life, on the other, another life. One might indeed be vastly better, happier, more fulfilling. But which?

    Welcome to the human condition.

    While freedom is a curse, it is also life's greatest blessing, and I say this with total sincerity. Llfe truly wouldn't be living without freedom.

    Much more to be said, but what do you think of that so far?
  • Malcolm Parry
    303
    I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.Truth Seeker

    I think any choices you would have made in the past will have been overwhelmed by your condition.

    I think you made the correct decision in trusting the psychiatrist even if the outcome was much worse than keeping off meds. (not that you will ever know)
    It was an informed decision and the advice was made by professionals that see patients constantly and even give the best care available at the time.

    Going forward, I think simple decision making on a micro level would be of benefit.
    You say that your physical health, education, career and relationships have been ruined but you are where you are and decisions going forward are the only ones that matter.

    You can start on your fitness from today. I'm in my 60s and whilst being relatively fit I wanted to improve. One goal was pressups. My first attempt was 5 and I collapsed. Every day I shower and the water takes a few minutes to warm up. Every day I now do pressups before the shower. I have improved but the lesson I learned was that I need to do it everyday and it is a little win.
    I would see your career and education now would be to learn about nutrition and fitness and work at it slowly and incrementally and don't sweat any

    You obviously love your parents and you can repay them by being a slightly better person than you were. That is mainly for you though.

    Relationships is a hard one, especially the older you get but the relationship most important now is with yourself.
  • Malcolm Parry
    303
    I too wonder what life could have been had i not made this terrible choice.hypericin

    It seems I may have been wrong about the choice!
    I have come through life almost scar free and I have lead an ordinary life but an enjoyable one.
    I am fairly passive on most decisions as I see them as almost irrelevant but I think I was just very lucky. Which sometimes is important (even though I'm not superstitious in any way.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    Seems to me that the key is other people. Keep reaching out. And keep in mind that while you don't know what will happen next, sometimes things get better.

    You are welcome to PM me.
    Banno

    Thank you for your advice and your kindness.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    While freedom is a curse, it is also life's greatest blessing, and I say this with total sincerity. Llfe truly wouldn't be living without freedom.

    Much more to be said, but what do you think of that so far?
    hypericin

    Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts. I am so sorry that you, too, have the burden of regretting taking psychiatric medications.

    I don't feel free. Do you feel free?

    Here are some things I have done, currently do or will do even though I don't want to do them:

    1. Breathe
    2. Eat
    3. Drink
    4. Sleep
    5. Dream
    7. Pee
    8. Poo
    9. Fart
    10. Burp
    11. Sneeze
    12. Cough
    13. Age
    14. Get ill
    15. Get injured
    16. Sweat
    17. Cry
    18. Suffer
    19. Snore
    20. Think
    21. Feel
    22. Choose
    23. Be conceived
    24. Be born
    25. Remember some events
    26. Forget some events
    27. Die

    I really want to go back in time and prevent all suffering, injustice, and death and make all living things forever happy, but I lack the capacity to do this.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    you are where you are and decisions going forward are the only ones that matter.Malcolm Parry
    I agree because I can't change the past. Thank you for sharing your experience and for your advice. I am exercising daily but it is hard. I have a healthy diet but my problem is that my medication causes weight gain. I am also trying to learn computer programming which I find hard because of my depression and because of my age. I am 47.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    I have come through life almost scar free and I have lead an ordinary life but an enjoyable one.Malcolm Parry

    I am glad that you have had an easy life. I had many traumatic experiences from age 4 onwards. I am not going to go into the details of them because it is hard for me, and also I don't want to distress you and others.
  • Harry Hindu
    5.7k
    This happens because I am haunted by previous errors. If I had known how things would turn out, I would have chosen differently.Truth Seeker
    Exactly. If you had access to more information you would have chosen differently. So the question is, could it have been at all possible for you to have that information when making your decision? If not, then you can't blame yourself. You made the best possible decision given the information you had at that moment. Now, we could talk about who might be to blame, if anyone, for your limited access to information (and it could be you that is to blame if you chose to live in a bubble) that would have allowed you to make a more informed decision, but that is a different topic.

    Wouldn't it have been better if I had never existed at all?Truth Seeker
    Only if you were Caligula, Hitler or Stalin. But even then, every human is an example of the variety humans come in and permits us to bear witness the scope of human experience and existence that exists.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    You made the best possible decision given the information you had at that moment.Harry Hindu

    It's not just a matter of having access to information. It's also a matter of who to trust. I chose to trust a qualified and experienced psychiatrist over my parents because I thought that was the right thing to do. I can't even come off the 600 mg of Quetiapine XL I take per night because my brain has become dependent on this medication, and I can't function without it. I am depressed even though I take such a high dose.

    Only if you were Caligula, Hitler or Stalin.Harry Hindu
    I meant whether my nonexistence would have been better for me, compared to the life I have lived so far, which has been mostly suffering. Also, my nonexistence would have prevented all of my negative and positive impacts on others and the world e.g. ecological footprint. I am a Vegan, Egalitarian, Sentientist.
  • LuckyR
    601
    I struggle to make choices. I constantly second-guess myself. I often wish I had made different choices than the ones I made. What is the best way to make choices?


    I hear ya bro. Most folks try to make the "best" choice, but those who have a significant fear of the "worst" outcome from making choices (typically manifested by second guessing) are best served by making choices that eliminate the worst outcome, even if it also makes the best outcome unlikely, settling for a likely "pretty good" outcome. Obviously you know yourself best, so you're in the position to determine what is driving you to second guess, but this is a very common situation.

    Good luck.
  • Leontiskos
    4.7k


    A book that might help, "Prudence: Choose Confidently, Live Boldly."

    More simply, Aristotle's advice would be to identify people who you believe make good choices, and emulate them. Also consult and associate with them if at all possible.
  • Leontiskos
    4.7k
    I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. My parents told me to ignore the psychiatrist and not take the prescribed medications. I didn't listen to my parents. I trusted my psychiatrist and took the prescribed medications. 27 years and 3 months later, I am still struggling with depression and all the side-effects of the prescribed medications. I have gone from 65 kg to 98 kg as my medication causes weight gain. My mental illness has ruined my physical health, education, career and relationships. I often wonder how my life would be if I had listened to my parents instead of my psychiatrist.Truth Seeker

    One way we improve is by identifying mistakes and then resolving to change. What do you see as your mistake in this instance? What is the thing you wish you had done differently?

    Ideally you want to identify something that is more than surface-level. So you shouldn't look back and say, "I shouldn't have taken medication, and therefore I now resolve to not take any medications." Or even, "I shouldn't have taken psychiatric medication, and therefore I now resolve to not take psychiatric medication." You want to identify something deeper than that.

    The case you give is tricky because you were stuck between the authority of a medical professional and the authority of your parents, both of which have a strong purchase on you. Ideally you should start with smaller changes and less difficult questions if you want to improve your ability to make choices. "Small steps," as they say.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    by making choices that eliminate the worst outcomeLuckyR

    Thank you very much for your advice.
  • Truth Seeker
    897
    A book that might help, "Prudence: Choose Confidently, Live Boldly."Leontiskos

    Thank you very much for the book recommendation. I look forward to reading it.

    What do you see as your mistake in this instance? What is the thing you wish you had done differently?Leontiskos

    I wish I had listened to my parents instead of listening to my psychiatrist. Sadly, I can't change the past.
  • unenlightened
    9.7k
    I wish I had listened to my parents instead of listening to my psychiatrist. Sadly, I can't change the past.Truth Seeker

    I wish you had had a better psychiatrist.
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