What do we mean when we talk about “having a thought”, anyway? I’d also raise the question of whether asking “Can a Thought Cause Another Thought?” is clear enough, without first being much more specific about what we want “cause” to cover. — J
The first thought reminded me of the second thought — J
Do all thoughts have or need a cause? — Sir2u
But first of all exactly what is a thought? Is it that voice we hear in our head, or do we have unheard thoughts as well? — Sir2u
Thoughts are like actions. They're a continuous process. — Copernicus
How does thought A lead to/cause/remind us of thought B, in the same way that we can ask, How does my action of chewing a mouthful of food lead to/cause me to have a drink? — J
As T Clark allows, “It works for certain everyday events at human scale, e.g. if I push the grocery cart it moves.” I think we should see “thought-to-thought connection” as another example of an everyday event at human scale – at any rate, that’s the premise of what follows. — J
But can we also speak of this in casual terms? Again, this seems in accord with common usage. We might say, “Thinking of Ann caused me to remember her birthday.” But perhaps this is just loose talk. — J
If you believe, with Google’s chat-program, that any causal connection must be physical... — J
Google’s ever-helpful chat-program – presumably reflecting some kind of cyberworld consensus – would like to straighten this out for us: — J
Good question. But do you mean "thoughts" understood as my W2 thoughts, or thoughts as propositions? — J
To keep this use of “thought” distinct from the propositional content of a thought, I’ll call it a “W2 thought” from now on,
The "voice in the head" version would be what I'm calling a W2 thought. — J
Unheard thoughts? I think not, for purposes of this discussion. (I'm assuming you mean "unheard" metaphorically, so it translates to "thoughts I'm not aware of having.") — J
A. I think: “I wonder how my friend Ann is doing.”
B. I then think: “It’s her birthday soon; I must get her a present.”
The most standard description of what’s going on here is, I believe, something like: “The first thought reminded me of the second thought,” or “When I thought of Ann, I remembered it was her birthday soon, which reminded me that I want to get her a present.” — J
I'm suggesting that "thought" can be understood in at least two ways. The "voice in the head" version would be what I'm calling a W2 thought. Unheard thoughts? I think not, for purposes of this discussion. — J
So what made you think of Ann (W2) in the first place? — Sir2u
That is I was automatically seeing "thinking of Ann" as a background process that instatiates as both A and B. Wondering how Ann is doing and her birthday are two different elements you could connect with Ann. — Dawnstorm
I can't easily pin down a single thought. . . . So if you'd be excluding "unheard thoughts", I probably have little to contribute. — Dawnstorm
This takes us back to the Google chatbot’s confident statement that “causation involves a physical connection between events, while entailment is a relationship between propositions.” — J
Looking at it in terms of semantics, I'd say the connections between thoughts is associative. There are many common, that is communally shared, associations between ideas. — Janus
Looking at it from a physical perspective, the semantic relations could be physically instantiated as interconnections between neural networks. — Janus
It might be any number of things -- a picture, a scent, a dream, Proust's cookie, or, of course, a previous thought. I'm not suggesting that only a previous thought can cause a current thought. The OP is asking into what might be going on when such a situation does appear to occur. — J
The "thought of Ann" might be a mental image, or her name, a memory associated with her -- I can only call upon your agreement here that something happens to which we refer when we say "All at once I thought of Ann and [now the words enter] wondered how she was doing". So this is thought A. And this, in turn, begins the process of reminding or causing which produces thought B -- I must get her a birthday present. — J
And my question here is, specifically, can these associations include causal connections? — J
If you later come across one of those details in other circumstances they will cause a connection to the other event. — Sir2u
I suppose it can be argued that your initial thought about Ann did not cause your second thought about her. It can also be argued that it did, but I think there's a much stronger argument that the thought "7 + 5" caused the thought 12 — Patterner
I’m going to accept the idea that our common understanding and use of “cause” is meaningful, and refers to a genuine phenomenon in the world. As T Clark allows, “It works for certain everyday events at human scale, e.g. if I push the grocery cart it moves.” — J
Looking at it in terms of semantics, I'd say the connections between thoughts is associative. — Janus
It seems like you want to talk about how one thought can follow from another in a non-logical way (i.e. via psychological association).
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"But why did his ice-cream thought follow upon his grasshopper-thought?" "Because he associates ice cream with grasshoppers, likely because of the Grasshopper cocktail." — Leontiskos
And my question here is, specifically, can these associations include causal connections? — J
Would you say that, in your "stream-of-Ann" thoughts, there is an element of causation that produces A, B, C, et al.? And can the surface-level thought A indeed cause thought B to rise up as well? Or is causality altogether the wrong way to think about this process? — J
It can also be argued that it did, but I think there's a much stronger argument that the thought "7 + 5" caused the thought... — Patterner
Great. That's exactly what I'd like to hear about: Can we give a sense of causality to entailment or logical equivalence? — J
Well, I don't know the lingo, so I'll just give my thoughts, and you can see if it's what you're after.Great. That's exactly what I'd like to hear about: Can we give a sense of causality to entailment or logical equivalence? — J
Thinking of Ann -> World2 thought of how Ann is doing -> Production of World3 object "I wonder how Ann is doing" — Dawnstorm
there could be some causal connection ([but] how do we differentiate between cause, influence and trigger, for starters). — Dawnstorm
Is the thought "I wonder [how] Ann is doing" viewed as a type that anyone can have? Is it the thought that's in your brain? Is it the World 3 words and its associated proposition? — Dawnstorm
When we speak of one thought causing another, are we speaking about W2 thoughts, or about propositions? — J
If the former, then we need a theory about how psychological events can be causative. — J
When we speak of one thought causing another, are we speaking about W2 thoughts, or about propositions? — J
If the former, then we need a theory about how psychological events can be causative. — J
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