• GreekSkeptic
    10
    This is the second part of me trying to explain the truth I wish to find. This post is about the self-reflection in a years long process regarding my past hypocritical and egoistical self. However, I highly suggest you to read my first part in order for this post to seem coherent. Plus, your comments on both of these posts will be highly appreciated as I'm in the process of writing a book and opening a Philosophy Club in my university. Lastly, I apologize for any grammatical errors. English is not my maternal language.

    I explained in the first post that pain showed me not how things are but how things are NOT. I explained how my pain and suffering, through my personal experiences, is stripping away this illusionary world my environment had built for me, forcing me undoubtedly to accept it. I want to show you the hypocrisy that got uncovered with that process.

    First of all, I talked about a part of my life where I felt an overwhelming emptiness when I finally noticed for the first time how fake my reality has formed. However, this process of finally accepting at the end the numbness and the existential void included parts of self-pity/blame, self-hatred, hate towards others, hate towards everything... Now look at the disgusting part of this. While I was pitying and blaming myself for everything, I thought anyone who felt the same as me had it more easy than me. I believed that my situation was worth of utmost high attention and anyone else did not have an idea on how "real suffering" feels. Disgusting but there's more. I was convinced people were obliged to notice how I feel without me actively telling them even if they mocked me. I had this idea that people were all stupid and they couldn't figure out my situation. I was convinced after a time of throwing these "hints" of me feeling let's say depressed for the sake of the argument (literally me believing that people are my puppets), that others were ACTIVELY ignoring me, thus a period of hate towards them started.

    This hate turned me into a fuming machine. Machine sounds interesting here (nevermind). I heard people's problems with disgust like "How can you feel bad about that?". These were my inner thoughts. I listened to my classmate's school problems, health problems, even family problems and I thought to myself "Wow, this guy thinks he has seen and lived it all. What a fake. What a disgusting human being. I'm better." And the hate got spread even more, outside of the familiar environment. I was blinded to the core. It was me, the most perfect ,brave, courageous, beautiful, kind, down-to-earth human being against the world. Homeless people were all jokers, who couldn't get a job. Others who just did not match my outfit preferences were careless, and ugly, and not self-loving. I argued that OTHERS were not self-loving. Sounds insane, right? Then, I was hateful towards my parents. Out of the many in the world, these two people I gave my most hate. I called them disgusting things. Humiliating things. I was searching on how to manipulate people (sounds cringe, I know), how to tell better lies, how to humiliate others and other bad stuff. I even wished death to people who like did not tell me good morning or did not talk to me like for some reason they were supposed and forced to.

    Here's the paradox. I was governed by two illogical premises. The first was that I was too perfect to hangout with anybody. The second was that I deserved human company and affection. I felt extremely lonely and extremely good-for-everything to be with anyone. The simultaneous hypocrisy was that there were people I'd name "friends", people I hanged out and did everything together. And in the mean time I thought all of the above while with them.
  • ChatteringMonkey
    1.6k
    Here's the paradox. I was governed by two illogical premises. The first was that I was too perfect to hangout with anybody. The second was that I deserved human company and affection. I felt extremely lonely and extremely good-for-everything to be with anyone. The simultaneous hypocrisy was that there were people I'd name "friends", people I hanged out and did everything together. And in the mean time I thought all of the above while with them.GreekSkeptic

    They are not illogical because they stem from feelings... feelings just are and they can direct you in different conflicting directions, but are not illogical themselves, but a-logical.

    What the one tells you is that you have a drive to aim high, that you are ambitious. That is not necessarily bad if you don't take it to far to the detriment of everything else.

    What the other tells you is that you do have a need to be with other people, which is also perfectly fine by itself as long as you don't feel entitled to it. This need not be in contradiction with a healthy amount of ambition.

    The trick is to align your drives into a more coherent whole, because they will probably stay with you in some way or another.

    Also, being humbled by life is to some extend to be expected and necessarily for personal growth, don't sweat it to much.
  • GreekSkeptic
    10


    I appreciate your comment.

    Yes, you're right. Illogical is not the right word here. I apologize. However...

    The trick is to align your drives into a more coherent whole, because they will probably stay with you in some way or another.ChatteringMonkey

    (I don't know if you read the first part of the discussion.)
    I think you missed my point or you're using this paradox "without context".
    My issue is not that I haven't found a way to control my feelings. My issue is that they are illusionary because they were built upon a worldview others forced me to undoubtedly accept. It's not that I reject their existence. It's that they were manipulated because I was told when and how to feel them. Thus, I'm looking for something that will allow me to feel them as something honest, transcendent, coherent and "real"...like pain does, as I argued in the first discussion.

    I used this paradox to explain how reality stripped away this "box of thought". I used to show how it uncovered the fake. How my hate derived from this idea "i'm perfect", in short, interfered it with the real which is me feeling and being actually lonely, which is painful. And pain felt real because it showed me this "hate" was justified by a fake worldview.
  • Philosophim
    3.2k
    All perfectly normal. When we are born we are not precious moral agents. We are selfish, self-centered little animals that have to learn about the world. It is not evil to be young and make mistakes in the process of growing. Yes, you acted terrible for a time, but you learned and grew from that.

    A 'bad' person is someone who refuses to grow or refuses to acknowledge they might need to improve. Perhaps you were bad yesterday, that does not mean you have to be a bad person today or in the future. Look back at your past actions with a motive to not be that in the future. What is past is past, and if you are not learning from that past but using it as a means to punish yourself, you are not growing and improving. So don't beat yourself up over your past actions, just move forward and be the better person we all want to be.
  • ChatteringMonkey
    1.6k
    I think you missed my point or you're using this paradox "without context".
    My issue is not that I haven't found a way to control my feelings. My issue is that they are illusionary because they were built upon a worldview others forced me to undoubtedly accept. It's not that I reject their existence. It's that they were manipulated because I was told when and how to feel them. Thus, I'm looking for something that will allow me to feel them as something honest, transcendent, coherent and "real"...like pain does, as I argued in the first discussion.

    I used this paradox to explain how reality stripped away this "box of thought". I used to show how it uncovered the fake. How my hate derived from this idea "i'm perfect", in short, interfered it with the real which is me feeling and being actually lonely, which is painful. And pain felt real because it showed me this "hate" was justified by a fake worldview.
    GreekSkeptic

    Ok I've read you first post now, and I think I understand it better now.

    If you're asking for philosophers who might have something relevant to say here, the first one I though about is Nietzsche. When he speaks about philosophising with the hammer, he means a tuning hammer to sound out ideals and whether or not the are "real"... he found many of the conventional ideals we hold dear to be empty. His whole philosophy is essentially an attempt at re-evaluation of values.

    If you're talking of pain showing you what is real, he also did view suffering as something necessary for life, from the Gay science :

    "Only great pain is the ultimate liberator of the spirit…. I doubt that such pain makes us ‘better’; but I know that it makes us more profound." — Gay Science

    "Better" in quotes I think is to indicate to what is conventionally deemed as better, but not necessarily what he would consider better.

    And then if you talk about stripping away the "boxes of thought", Nietzsche also has a lot to say about that. It's a bit much to expand on here, but that was basicly his issue with Socrates/Plato who started putting the conceptual first to the detriment of the tragic view on life that came before (where the Dionysian was fundamental).

    Dostojevski has similar psychological insights as Nietzsche but takes it in another direction, one that might interest you perhaps more as you say that helping other people was one of the things that felt the most real to you. I hope you don't mind me saying but the way you discribe it, it did made me think of the orginal teachings of Christ (not necessarily the institutionalised variety of the Church). Anyway a lot of Dostojevskis protagonists, like for instance in Crime and punishment, go through similar fever dream/unreal episodes where they are being let astray by 'fake ideas' to ultimately end up - typically after a lot of hardship - turning to Christ.

    And Kierkegaard is another one in a similar vein I suppose, though i'm not all that familiar with his philosophy.
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