The division between the secular and 'spirituality' is complex. Numinousity may involves the arts rather than what is perceived as 'religious experience'. Art may be the way in which the numinous is often expressed and experienced.

The issue of 'freedom' may be about the consciousness of 'freedom' conceptually.Recently, I read ' Freedom Evolves'; by Daniel Dennett. The idea of free choice may be bound up with the emergence of human consciousness. I was a little confused though by his thinking as he is associated with the idea of consciousness as an 'illusion'

I am inclined to think that the evolution of ''consciousness' is about the experience of reflection as a basis for the development of consciousness on an 'inner' level.

Yes, I agree that there can be a lack of understanding of 'spirituality' amongst both religious people and atheists. The ancient thinkers, including Plato and Plotinus may have understood the value of inner experience, including spirituality, as a basis for human meaning and understanding.

It may also involve 'feeling', which may be a little different from the perspective of 'reason' and cognitive processes in the brain. Philosophy may come with the side-effect of 'overthinking' and some resultant imbalance of understanding.

The division between the secular and 'spirituality' is complex. Numinousity may involves the arts rather than what is perceived as 'religious experience'. Art may be the way in which the numinous is often expressed and experienced. — Jack Cummins

Sounds a little tangled. Can you pick one thread so there is something to get ohld of in amongst this. It is a very complex area with many nebulous concepts. Maybe start by substantiating what division there is between the secular and the spiritual? Expanding form Eliade maybe?

I was just referring to plain old freedom - to do as one wishes.

I am not sure that the issues which I raise can be pinned down to one thread. It involves so much thinking about 'reality' and the questions arising in the inner life. There is also the issue of freedom and individualism. Spirituality may involve both an individual quest or be about a basis for understanding connectivity and moral responsibility. The two aspects may be juxtaposed or 'spirituality' my involve the balance between inner and outer aspects of living. Spirituality may be questionable when it is about one's own self alone, as if one is trying to rocket into 'heaven' on an individual quest.

Pick one then. I see no issues raised atm just a vague gesturing towards something. If that is all you can do then there isn't much more to be said on my part.

It does seem likely that religious believers may be devoid of spirituality, just as similar to atheists. This was the area of criticism of the Pharisees which Jesus identified. The inner quest for truth may be the quest of Socrates, Jesus, the Buddha, Nietzsche's Zarathustra and many others who sought the idea of 'truth within' oneself as an essential starting point for understanding and living.

Just as you are asking about my purpose of writing, I am wondering about yours too. It is so easy to get caught up in tangents of thinking, both about inner and outer aspects of philosophy. To a large extent, I would argue that the value of 'spiritual truths' is not about rational arguments per se, but what works as wisdom for living.

The inner quest for truth may be the quest of Socrates, Jesus, the Buddha, Nietzsche's Zarathustra and many others who sought the idea of 'truth within' oneself as an essential starting point for understanding and living. — Jack Cummins

I don't know how much good can come out of looking for the "truth within" until we have lived long enough to know much of anything. I think until recently, all people turned to their elders to know about life.

An inner quest for truth would be a mental thing. I have read that the benefits of spirituality depend on the heart, not the thought. So, if a person prays for something from the position of not having that thing and being needy, this person is creating the neediness, not the fulfillment of the need. To fulfill the need, one must come from the position of gratefulness. Being grateful is a heart thing that manifests the fulfillment of what is desired. This is a more interactive relationship with the universe than modern Western thinking, which begins with separation from the spirit, God, and forces.

To be spiritual is to understand that we are co-creators with the universe. Googling the "Core principles for co-creation" will result in a fuller explanation.

The idea of the 'truth within' may be problematic if followed through for its own sake. The idea of being 'co-creators with the universe' may enable a connection between the inner and outer aspects of evolution and the evolution of consciousness. Even the separation between inner and outer may be a problem if taken too concretely. Spirituality is a complex interface of human existence, consciousness and understanding, of which religious thinking is a mere shadow of possibilities.

I am VERY interested in this kind of area. If you are still struggling to define what it is (in part or full) you wish to discuss then come back to me when you have found a way.

One aspect which I wonder about is whether suffering may be a pathway to greater consciousness or awareness. Of course, suffering can lead people to break down but if worked with may lead to greater understanding and insight. That is because suffering may lead a person to deeper searching than they would have pursued otherwise. That may seem a bit theoretical and I am not saying that it always does, but I have often found those who have been through harsh experiences have quality understanding or wisdom.