• AmadeusD
    3.8k
    I dont recognize anything you've said.

    Give me a reason to think babies are 'special' beyond that they are God's little gifts?
  • Hanover
    14.9k
    I dont recognize anything you've said.AmadeusD

    I guess we're at an impasse, not understanding what one another are saying. Alas.
  • unimportant
    146
    There's nothing inherenlty good about a baby being born. Its often bad for all involved.AmadeusD

    You seem to be conflating what is objectively useful from what society deems as valuable.

    You can say the same about a beautiful woman. They are not valued outside of the human realm but most guys will drool over her, while she has her best reproductive value at least.

    Also in turn society values them highly. If you think it is perfect egalitarianism go to a nightclub on your own on any weekend and see how you are treated by the bouncers compared to attractive an woman. Many other examples but that would be the most stark.

    As the old saying goes 'women and children first'. That leaves men at bottom of the barrel.

    I suppose I was discussing a fact of nature in my OP, so your response is a correct answer to my original query. However I was not aware at the time, that my value judgement of sex being dirty or whatnot, again not talking from a Puritanical point, just that it can be hot and nasty and also fun, is probably a societal view so perhaps better to shift the goalposts now to the societal aspect.
  • AmadeusD
    3.8k
    You seem to be conflating what is objectively useful from what society deems as valuable.unimportant

    I am asking for a reason for the deeming of value. I can't understand it, without recourse to a fiction. If that's the case, that's fine. I am interested in something more.

    You can say the same about a beautiful woman.unimportant

    Definitely. But "special" is different from "beautiful". The latter is wholly subjective. There are no standards. We can say a woman is beautiful because she causes x feelings which are directly to do with beauty - sexual arousal, visual satisfaction etc..
    I find it much harder to get an avenue of reasoning going for the value (intrinsic, that is) of a baby being born. Babies are surplus. They are often unwanted. Again, without recourse to a 'life is sacred' type line, I'm wanting some reason to think babies are special beyond "well, quite a few people think this".

    I'm not really sure how hte nightclub thing relates here, so i'll leave it.

    just that it can be hot and nasty and also fun, is probably a societal view so perhaps better to shift the goalposts now to the societal aspectunimportant

    Hmm, that's reasonable. I view sex similarly to birth: An alien coming across it would probably be horrified, not knowing it's probably one of the greatest experiences a human can have.
  • Leontiskos
    5.5k
    But they are objectively not special in any sense other than a theological one.AmadeusD

    Are humans special? Are babies human?

    I don't know of any other species which uses language, composes poetry, mathematizes the physical universe, develops vehicles to fly around within the atmosphere and even beyond, develops traditions which last for thousands of years and span civilizational epochs, and worships God. If humans aren't special then I don't know what is.

    There are lots of charitable readings of the OP. One is that something as special as a human being could result from an act that is so similar to acts that all of the non-human animals engage in. There is also the fact that the sexually promiscuous person's life is liable to change quite drastically once they find themselves with a newborn baby.
  • AmadeusD
    3.8k
    Sure, we could call humans 'special' but that's somewhat arbitrary. Tuataras are the only beaked reptile in the world. And also a near-dinosaur. We could call any specie special.

    My point is that any given baby is a drop in an ocean of noise. There's nothing 'special' about a baby unless you import something more than the fact of it's existence (perhaps it survived an incredibly difficult pregnancy?).
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