• DifferentiatingEgg
    823


    Even in the inorganic world all that concerns an atom of energy is its immediate neighbourhood: distant forces balance each other. Here is the root of perspectivity, and it explains why a living organism is "egoistic" to the core. — Nietzsche

    "YOU" is a falsification in unity forced through the psychology of grammar which is irreducibly Platonic. What you is:

    Life" might be defined as a lasting form of force-establishing processes, in which the various contending forces, on their part, grow unequally....

    The triumphant concept "energy" with which our physicists created God and the world, needs yet to be completed: it must be given an inner will which I characterise as the "Will to Power"—that is to say, as an insatiable desire to manifest power; or the application and exercise of power as a creative instinct, etc. Physicists cannot get rid of the "actio in distans" in their principles; any more than they can a repelling force (or an attracting one). There is no help for it, all movements, all "appearances," all "laws" must be understood as symptoms of an inner phenomenon, and the analogy of man must be used for this purpose. It is possible to trace all the instincts of an animal to the will to power; as also all the functions of organic life to this one source.
    — Nietzsche
  • bizso09
    85
    all "laws" must be understood as symptoms of an inner phenomenon, and the analogy of man must be used for this purpose. — Nietzsche

    Yes, I agree with that. However, my concern is why it's one particular inner phenomenon is playing in the Window, how was that selected, if there were multiple Windows, then why am I not them, in fact only one Window is what is "Mine", and if anybody else claimed to possess this "Mineness", they are lying, or there is a contradiction in the nature of things.

    Anyway, I think I exhausted what I mean by "You".
  • Patterner
    2k
    I mean, there can be multiple heres and nows, but still the fact is that I'm only seeing one of them, and how come it's this one if they are all here and now, shouldn't I be seeing them all?bizso09
    No. Because, while you are here, experiencing this coordinate zero, other coordinate zeros are everywhere, in all directions, up to about 13.5 BLY from you. How could you experience the coordinate zero that Arcturus experiences?
  • Esse Quam Videri
    192


    That's an interesting pivot. At this point, I think the disagreement is no longer about logic or indexicals. You’re explicitly adopting an ontology on which existence itself is defined by relation to a unique Window, and nothing exists independently of it. Given that assumption, symmetry is ruled out by stipulation. But that assumption is precisely what I reject, and nothing in the logical facts about first-person perspective forces it. So the contradiction you describe is conditional on that ontology, not a consequence of logic itself.
  • wonderer1
    2.4k
    However, my concern is why it's one particular inner phenomenon is playing in the Window, how was that selected, if there were multiple Windows, then why am I not them,bizso09

    There is one particular brain, lying behind one particular pair of eyes, which is instantiating you. Other brains behind other pairs of eyes instantiate other people.
  • Philosophim
    3.5k
    Well of course if someone else claims to be someone or something else, its a contradiction.
    — Philosophim

    Exactly. So my question is, are you claiming to be a "You" right now in the real world? Because if so, it's a contradiction.
    bizso09

    If by "You" you mean a synonym for "Philosophim", then its not a contradiction. If you mean "You" as a separate entity to "Philosophim" then its defacto a contradiction because you're saying one is actually two. That's impossible.
  • bizso09
    85

    The only axiom I make use of is the fact that I exist. This existence is what I call Window. The property of this existence is first person perspective, and The World exists linked to it. These facts are all derived from the axiom.

    How do I rule out Symmetry? Let's assume the existence of another Window, call it Window2. Since it's not something that is me, that implies that it exists outside of The World, because it cannot be related to me, and it's inaccessible to me. Since this Window2 is also first person perspective, it necessarily exists in TheWorld2.

    Now let's introduce an encapsulating world, EWorld, that contains both subworlds TheWorld and TheWorld2. I can do this because the definition of world is everything that exists, this makes EWorld not disjoint. I ask in this EWorld, where is the experience happening in first perspective? Is it in TheWorld2? The answer is no, because if it was yes, then I would be Window2 now. However, the axiom above states that I am Window full stop. Therefore, I know that it's TheWorld that has the Window and that's where I am. Window2 doesn't exist because it's not first person perspective, and it's not me.

    This implies that by virtue of I existing as the Window, I can disprove the existence of other Windows, not just in my world, but "The World", which is global and absolute. The existence of a Window precludes the existence of other Windows. Since there is already one Window, me, which I know due to the axiom, I know that for example you cannot be a Window2, unless we permit logical contradiction.
  • Esse Quam Videri
    192


    But you haven't derived your conclusion from the axiom “I exist”. You have simply defined existence itself as relation to your Window, and then ruled out other Windows on the basis of that definition. Given that ontology, symmetry is excluded by stipulation. But there is no need to accept this ontology, and there is nothing in the axiom "I exist" that forces it. So the contradiction you describe is conditional on your metaphysical definitions. If those definitions are rejected (and I do reject them), then the contradiction never surfaces.
  • bizso09
    85
    Well, something can either exist in relation to the Window, or independent of it. In the previous post, I covered the case of independence. This leaves us with existing in relation. I don't see an alternative.
123Next
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.