• Sam26
    3.1k
    Why Christianity Fails (The Testimonial Case)

    Christianity doesn’t treat the resurrection as a side issue. It treats it as the load bearing claim. Paul says it plainly: “If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins” (1 Cor. 15:17). If that claim doesn’t hold as an event in history, the system doesn’t merely lose a doctrine, it loses its foundation.

    Christianity stands or falls on a single historical claim: that Jesus of Nazareth rose bodily from the dead. I want to keep this thread narrow. I’m not starting with the assumption that miracles are impossible, and I’m not trying to settle theology by opinion. I’m asking a more basic question: is the testimonial evidence strong enough to justify belief in a bodily resurrection as knowledge, rather than as conviction?

    The question here is epistemological because it’s a question about the difference between belief and knowledge. People can be sincere, transformed, and willing to suffer, and still be wrong. Conviction doesn’t settle standing. When a claim is treated as a historical event, it’s the kind of claim where we normally ask what supports it, how the support is transmitted, and what would count as correction if it were mistaken. Since Christianity carries the resurrection forward primarily through testimony, the natural way to test its standing is to examine the testimony by the same criteria we use elsewhere when testimony is asked to carry serious weight.

    In my book From Testimony to Knowledge I lay out simple criteria for evaluating testimony. Testimony isn’t a weak route to knowledge. Most of what we know comes through the reports of others. The issue isn’t whether testimony can ever justify belief. The issue is what makes testimony good evidence, especially when the claim is weighty. In Chapter 2 I give five criteria that strengthen testimony: number, variety, consistency, corroboration, and firsthand character. In ordinary life, when these criteria are present, testimony can be strong. When they’re missing, testimony can still produce conviction, but conviction alone isn’t the same thing as justificatory standing.

    For clarity, I’m not ignoring the usual Christian supports for the resurrection. Christians typically appeal to a cluster of considerations: the Gospel narratives as witness reports, Paul’s summary in 1 Corinthians 15, the empty tomb tradition, appearance traditions, the transformation and persistence of the early disciples, the rapid emergence of the movement, and, in some cases, philosophical arguments about probability or warrant. My plan is to take these in turn and ask how they fare when measured by the criteria for strong testimony.

    Here’s how I’m going to run the discussion. I’ll take each criterion in turn and ask a focused question.

    Firsthand character: How much of the resurrection claim rests on direct eyewitness testimony that we can identify, and how much is secondhand report?

    Corroboration: What independent confirmation do we have for the central claims, confirmation that doesn’t simply repeat the same tradition in another form?

    Consistency: Do the accounts substantially converge on the crucial features without requiring harmonization to make them fit?

    Variety: Do we have testimony coming through diverse, independent contexts that would normally reduce shared scripting and group reinforcement?

    Number: How many independent lines of testimony do we really have once we separate sources from repetition?

    My contention is that the resurrection testimony is weaker than Christians often assume when it’s measured by these criteria. It may sustain belief within a tradition, and it may support participation in a religious life. But the question is whether it has the strength required for the bodily resurrection of a man to be treated as a historical event known to have occurred.
  • J
    2.4k
    Christianity stands or falls on a single historical claim: that Jesus of Nazareth rose bodily from the dead.Sam26

    I probably won't be contributing much to this thread, but . . . you do know that millions of people call themselves Christians today who don't believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus, despite Paul? Are they mistaken to do so, according to you? Or is it possible that your version of what Christianity involves is too traditional, given the very active, living presence of this religion in our culture? I wonder how many contemporary liberal and progressive Christian theologians you've actually read.
  • Sam26
    3.1k
    I probably won't be contributing much to this thread, but . . . you do know that millions of people call themselves Christians today who don't believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus, despite Paul? Are they mistaken to do so, according to you? Or is it possible that your version of what Christianity involves is too traditional, given the very active, living presence of this religion in our culture? I wonder how many contemporary liberal and progressive Christian theologians you've actually read.J

    Thanks for the comment. You’re right about the sociological fact: many people today call themselves Christians who don't believe in a bodily resurrection. I’m not denying that, and I’m not trying to argue against every Christian belief system.

    My point is narrower. I’m taking “Christianity” in the sense that is historically and doctrinally central to the tradition’s own proclamation, and on that point Paul’s conditional matters. If someone treats the resurrection as symbolic or non-bodily, they may still find Christian practices and moral teaching meaningful, but they’ve shifted the kind of claim being made. That shift is precisely what I’m trying to keep visible. It doesn’t settle anything by itself, but it changes what needs to be justified. A metaphor doesn’t require the same testimonial support as a claim about what happened in history.

    So no, I’m not saying liberal or progressive Christians are “mistaken to do so” in a moral sense. I’m saying that if the claim is no longer a bodily event in history, then the question I’m asking in this thread isn’t aimed at that version of Christianity. This thread is about the bodily resurrection as a historical claim, because that’s the version that is most often defended as something that can be known and proclaimed as fact.

    And I agree that liberal and progressive theologians are part of the living landscape. But notice what their move often is: they reduce the evidential burden by relocating the claim, from “this happened” to “this means,” from event to symbol, from history to existential interpretation. That may be a coherent religious posture, but it’s no longer a claim that stands or falls on testimony in the same way. In that sense it supports my framing rather than refutes it.
  • J
    2.4k
    the question I’m asking in this thread isn’t aimed at that version of Christianity.Sam26

    Fair enough, as long as we can agree that they really are different versions of Christianity, not a correct or authorized version and a series of heresies.

    And I agree that liberal and progressive theologians are part of the living landscape. But notice what their move often is: they reduce the evidential burden by relocating the claim, from “this happened” to “this means,” from event to symbol, from history to existential interpretation. That may be a coherent religious posture, but it’s no longer a claim that stands or falls on testimony in the same way.Sam26

    Right, as regards the resurrection, for instance. The life and teachings of Jesus, though, probably do need an evidentiary basis. I'm not aware of a Christian theology that allows that an actual person named Jesus of Nazareth never existed . . . but who knows, maybe there is.
  • Sam26
    3.1k
    Post 2: Firsthand Character

    Conviction is always present in a system of beliefs, but conviction alone isn’t enough to justify a belief. In other words, sometimes people claim to know, but this use of "I know..." is not epistemic, it's an expression of a conviction.

    In my last post I laid out five criteria for strong testimony. I’m going to start with the one that matters most here: firsthand character.

    In ordinary life, testimony is strongest when we can say, with some clarity, who is reporting, what they claim to have experienced directly, and how that report reached us. The point isn’t that secondhand testimony is always useless. We rely on it constantly. The point is that as the claim becomes more weighty, and as the event becomes more unusual, the difference between “I saw” and “someone said” starts to matter a lot. And it matters even more when the chain between the event and our sources is long.

    So here’s the question for the resurrection: How much of our evidence is identifiable firsthand testimony, and how much of it is tradition about what others claimed to see?

    A few observations to keep the discussion focused:

    Paul is early, but he isn’t giving us direct eyewitness narratives of the events in Jerusalem. He gives a summary of what he “received” and “passed on,” plus his own claim that he experienced an appearance. That matters, but it isn’t the same thing as multiple named eyewitnesses giving independent reports we can examine.

    The Gospel narratives are our main source of appearance stories, but the witness layer is hard to isolate. They’re written as narratives, not as signed statements from named witnesses. Even if they preserve earlier testimony, the question remains: how much of that testimony can be traced and identified as firsthand, rather than as communal tradition shaped in the process of transmission?

    When Christians say “there were eyewitnesses,” what do we actually have access to? Do we have the witnesses themselves, their independent reports, and the conditions that normally allow cross checking? Or do we have later reports about witnesses?

    Even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that the Gospel accounts are firsthand, that concession barely strengthens the case. Firsthand character is only one criterion. A firsthand report can still be weak if it comes to us through an opaque chain, if it can’t be cross checked by independent lines, and if the normal mechanisms of correction are missing.

    And the stakes here matter. In ordinary life, two or three reliable witnesses may be enough for an everyday event, especially when the event fits comfortably inside what we already know about the world. But the bodily resurrection of a dead man is not an everyday event. The claim carries far more weight than the cases where we’re content with a thin testimonial base, and that means the supporting testimony has to carry more of the stabilizing features we ordinarily rely on: independence, corroboration, and exposure to correction.

    None of this proves the resurrection false. But it does locate the issue. Christianity asks this testimony to bear an enormous load: the bodily return of a dead man. If the evidence is going to reach the level of knowledge rather than conviction, the firsthand character of the testimony matters, and it matters in combination with the other criteria.
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