Goodness doesn't require misfortune/badness. If you insist it does, can you explain a bit more? — TheMadFool

Sure. Imagine if no bad things happen, then what does goodness boil down to? Another way of looking at it is to ask what would the world be like if it was inhabited (geddit?!) solely (geddit?!) by Buddhist monks? Where's your goodness now?

if everyone isn't equally happy, it's not a utopia. — Thanatos Sand

Oh righty - so call off the search then on the basis of a technicality?

if everyone isn't equally happy, it's not a utopia.
— Thanatos Sand

Oh righty - so call off the search then on the basis of a technicality?

A glaring prohibitive truth is not even close to a technicality.

How then are you going to set your goals in Prutopia? — TheMadFool

By acknowledging diverstiy

if everyone isn't equally happy, it's not a utopia. — Thanatos Sand

Who told you that? Anyways, we are discussing practoipias, mainly in order to circumvent nhihilists.

Who told you that? Anyways, we are discussing practoipias, mainly in order to circumvent nhihilists.

Nobody told me that, it's a fact you have yet to counter. But feel free to show how something can be a utopia with some people happier than others.

I think you are hung up on the definition of Utopia - using it as an excuse not to think about how society could be better.

I think you are hung up on the definition of Utopia - using it as an excuse not to think about how society could be better.

You actually said I'm hung up on the definition on the word "utopia" when we're discussing possible utopias. That's as ridiculous as saying one is hung up on the word "horse" when one is looking to buy a horse.

I'm sorry, Jake, as long as one is discussing utopias, the definition of the word matters. It's a bit odd I have to remind you of that.

Get the word right at least- it's practopia!

And practopia comes from utopia. So, I have the right word. And the phrase was actually "practical utopia.". Get the phrase right at least.

I take it you don't like my vison of practopia?

I haven't seen it.

By acknowledging diverstiy — Jake Tarragon

Diversity breeds conflict. Look at the natural word. Diversity: prey - predator. I think there's a good reason why birds of a feather flock together. Perhpas we can control diversity, harnessing its merits and limiting its dangers.

Lots of societal change has recently occurred rather quickly - I'm thinking of sexuality and race. — Jake Tarragon

But societal change is neutral; if you're chalking up changes in societal norms towards sexuality and race as positive societal changes, then you need to also look at what you might consider negative societal changes that occur at the same time. Political corruption is a constantly boiling pot which eventually leads to tectonic political changes, and suddenly the social reforms that we thought we built up are now toppled down. The hubris of our time is that we implicitly assume that things like technological innovation, a globalized economy, social equality, are synonymous with a sort of humanistic progression. But that's only one side to the neutral phenomenon of societal progression. Most western societies ultimately progress to a point of societal death.

The path to Practopia might be a difficult one but I am more interested here as to how Practopia would be organized. I am suggesting that the main design feature is individual freedom, which would allow for diversity of lifestyle. I see Universal Basic Income as a mainstay of Practopia, alongside a freed up education system aimed at personal growth and enjoyment of life. The purpose of the economy would be to serve the needs of people, and not the other way round. I also think that private property (land and housing) should gradually be abolished by means of the state buying it all up over time and renting out. Although I think Practopia should allow some people to be more wealthy than others, land and property is too scarce and important to be privately owned.

Forget everything being "perfect". Forget everyone being "equal". Forget people being in a permanent state of bliss.
Think instead of a practical Utopia as being an optimum - or even just a "very good", way of organizing society and the economy in terms of delivering happiness and well being for all. Does such a project have a chance, at least, of being sensibly formulated as long as the aforementioned extreme demands are abandoned? — Jake Tarragon

No chance at all, in my opinion.
The nature of human attribute won't allow it to happen. As long as there are humans, there's always a state of unbalanced. Everyone has their own thinking, they have their own idea of utopia. The utopia you have in mind can't be the same with everyone's. An organized society might be what some people have been yearning for but at the same time some people don't settle for comfort or mediocrity. You can't satisfy everyone at the same time using the same idea of "utopia".
Well unless you apply the practical utopia project on a group of automatons, where they have the same mindset.

No chance at all, in my opinion. — Cynical Eye

In advance of trying, that is. Good. Neatly done, and self-absolved. That leaves more time to do many other things. X-)

An organized society might be what some people have been yearning for but at the same time some people don't settle for comfort or mediocrity. — Cynical Eye

Is a culture that works for its members (at least as well as the people work for it) impossible in reality, impossible in theory, or both? If so, please share your thoughts if you would.

And why would such a society necessarily be "mediocrity"? Would it be some exaggeration of a communist werkers' paradise, with matching bland uniforms, easy-listening music playing nonstop, and no goofing off allowed? If that is what you are hinting at, can't we stretch our powers of imagination just a little more? And if that's not what you meant, please clarify (while excusing my wild, if well-intended, assumptions). Thanks!

All fine ideas, but what you're missing is a proper analysis of the state of the human condition.

All fine ideas, but what you're missing is a proper analysis of the state of the human condition — Noble Dust

Not at all. My practopia is designed to accommodate a wide range of lifestyles of choice, which is about all one could ask of a society. Sure there will still be murders, grief and sorrow.

You didn't address my caution about the human condition here. You would need to go into more detail in order to actually address it.

ummmm well..... all I can say is that Practopia is aimed at people. Not other creatures. I think it is up tp you to focus your concerns - e.g. "people like to be bloody minded " or whatever...??

What??