Sure, I agree with this.If a woman had consented, it would not be assault or harassment, whether it was immoral or not. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Even if they were attracted to Trump, they could still object to his harassment and assault without any issue.
— TheWillowOfDarkness
If a woman wants a man to touch her, is that assault if the man touches her? I am condemning their lust in that part - namely that they secretly desire such things - NOT excusing Trump. Trump's behaviour is still immoral - EVEN IF - they actually do want to be touched by him.
Well is it assault if you grope a woman who wants you to grope her, maybe even asks you to grope her?! :sIn this vile post of yours, you claim that it is not assault to grope a woman if she actually wanted it, which is defending sexual assault. — John Harris
Sorry to tell you, but there's no other possible conclusion. IF a woman wants it - then she is not assaulted. IF she is assaulted - then she doesn't want it. You can't have it both ways. Do you understand that?! Now you can say that I am wrong, that the women on TV don't want it, and would therefore be assaulted, sure! But you can't say that I am a sexist.And instead of condemning the assaulting male, you condemn the assaulted woman--pure sexism. And then you continue your vile sexism by asserting the woman want to be groped when you have no reason to believe or know that at all. — John Harris
Sorry to tell you, but there's no other possible conclusion.
Well is it assault if you grope a woman who wants you to grope her, maybe even asks you to grope her?! — Agustino
Let's consider another hypothetical scenario where a woman doesn't want to be groped but tells you that you can grope her because of social or peer pressure say. Is consent defined by her words or by her desire?Well, let's consider a hypothetical scenario where a woman wants to be groped but tells you not to grope her. Is consent (or lack thereof) defined according to desire or by words? — Michael
Let's consider another hypothetical scenario where a woman doesn't want to be groped but tells you that you can grope her because of social or peer pressure say
In practice, by words, since we cannot with great certainty predict her real desires. But theoretically, it is by her desire, not by her words. If she says yes, but physically resists it for example, then it would be assault to grope her.Is consent (or lack thereof) defined according to desire or by words? — Michael
Is consent (or lack thereof) defined according to desire or by words?
— Michael
In practice, by words, since we cannot with great certainty predict her real desires. But theoretically, it is by her desire, not by her words. If she says yes, but physically resists it for example, then it would be wrong to grope her.
That wasn't the scenario. So, you're moving the goalposts just further shows how wrong you were. — John HarrisRetard. Go under your bed and be quiet. I'm talking to more intelligent people than you now, who can understand the point I'm making. — Agustino
I agree :)Her desire. That's why you have to be thinking about others. One cannot just treat words as a permission slip. You have to be considering what another person thinks and wants. — TheWillowOfDarkness
If a woman wants a man to touch her, is that assault if the man touches her?
We all remember our friend who was unfairly banned for "being a Nazi", even though he was no Nazi:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/57934#Post_57934 — Agustino
And the women in your scenario never said yes, so you're moving the goalposts again. You keep showing how wrong you were.
— John Harris
But theoretically, it is by her desire, not by her words.
— Agustino
One cannot just treat words as a permission slip. You have to be considering what another person thinks and wants. — TheWillowOfDarkness
As I said, in practice you're best off - generally - to listen to the words, especially if they're a no. But this doesn't mean that the words are where consent is coming from.And what if they say "no"? Can we just treat the words as a rejection, or do we have to consider what they think and want, and plough ahead if we think they secretly want it? — Michael
↪John Harris What is it that you want? Seriously. Bitter?
↪John Harris Or so you just desire to experience the feeling of being right?
As I said, in practice you're best off - generally - to listen to the words, especially if they're a no. But this doesn't mean that the words are where consent is coming from.
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