You can't define into existence a thing with superlative properties. — Michael

This is one flaw you've pointed out and one that I can understand. Are there any other problems with the argument?

It's a non sequitur basically.

Definitely. Have you seen the Youtube video with the Professor from MIT on the problem of evil? — MountainDwarf

The problem of evil isn't really a problem because we can always say God's intentions are beyond our understanding.

What do you mean? I've expressed the argument as clearly as possible in sentential logic.

No, because this morning I imagined a being that is 10% greater than the one I imagined yesterday. — andrewk

How about if I imagine God to be the infinite?

How about if I imagine God to be the infinite? — TheMadFool

Then I will imagine the powerset of God, which will be a strictly higher order of infinity.

And the next day I will imagine the powerset of that, which will be still greater.

And so on......

The problem of evil isn't really a problem because we can always say God's intentions are beyond our understanding. — TheMadFool

Well, you can say that but if God's intentions are beyond our understanding why does he even attempt to reveal himself through things like Scripture or tradition?

Put another way, if God's intentions are beyond our understanding how can he communicate his intentions to us?

How do you know when God is on your side and when he isn't?

What you're saying is that there can't be a greatest being, mathematically. There are an infinite number of infinities, each bigger than the other. So, there can't be a biggest.

But is big = great?

I mean, does something have to be quantitatively big for it to be great? A brave man is great but there isn't a number that specifies his greatness. Math has no relevance to bravery. Similarly, I think God's properties of omnipotence, omnibenevolence and omniscience are qualities, not quantities.

How do you know when God is on your side and when he isn't? — MountainDwarf

God takes sides?! If he does take sides there are only two possibilities. Either he takes the side of the virtuous which means actually practicing virtue and has nothing to do with having right or wrong beliefs, only actions and intentions matter. Or, He takes everyone's side. I think in war, for example, God is on the side of every victim and for every act of selfless bravery, but does not care at for nationalism or ideology or even just war theory. I fought in the Iraq war in the US Army, God was on my side because I was a foolish kid thrust into a warzone trying to do the right thing but he was also on side of the families who houses we bombed.

This is even more contraversial but I'm beginning to suspect that having God on your side or praying to Him doesn't do any good in a worldly sense. God didn't stop some of my friends getting hurt and He didn't stop the family from loosing their home. God is on our side in the sense He calls us to greater virtue and draws us closer to Him. He only cares about eternity and He knows that He alone is what we seek. Maybe God did keep me safe (I have no way of knowing what could have happened without His providence) but He definitely does not have personal wish granting as His focus. If He grants wishes, then childhood cancer and genocide prove He does a poor job at that.

God takes sides?! If he does take sides there are only two possibilities. Either he takes the side of the virtuous which means actually practicing virtue and has nothing to do with having right or wrong beliefs, only actions and intentions matter. Or, He takes everyone's side. I think in war, for example, God is on the side of every victim and for every act of selfless bravery, but does not care at for nationalism or ideology or even just war theory. I fought in the Iraq war in the US Army, God was on my side because I was a foolish kid thrust into a warzone trying to do the right thing but he was also on side of the families who houses we bombed. — MysticMonist

What about all the times in the Old Testament when he said to such and such a nation that he would end them? Can God be on your side in the midst of destroying you? I don't know. If he loves the very people he destroys why destroy them? Why not send a prophet like Jonah to those nations?

What about all the times in the Old Testament when he said to such and such a nation that he would end them? — MountainDwarf

Yeah, are the Jews the chosen people? Did the Absolute choose to reveal Himself to Abraham and the rest of the world was kept guessing?

God orders lots of murders in the Torah for sure. The plot thickens. I have no idea. I don't know if God commanded those things or people just said He did. I don't take the flood literally but I believe the slaughter of enemy tribes probably happened.


What about this example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muath_Al-Kasasbeh
Here is a Muslim family man who was burned alive in a cage by Isis who claimed to do so in the name of God. If a group of crazy people where kidnapping and killing people saying you told them to do it and that you approved of it, wouldn't you try to stop it or at least denounce it? Why did God not save this person or reveal to us Isis is wrong? Perhaps He already has revealed that you can't do this with murdering in the name of God in the Torah, Gospels. Quran and about any holy book you read. But it doesn't seem enough. Obviously Isis skips over those passages. Why is the world so full of this suffering? Why is the Truth not clearer? I don't know, I have no answers.

Yeah, are the Jews the chosen people? Did the Absolute choose to reveal Himself to Abraham and the rest of the world was kept guessing?

God orders lots of murders in the Torah for sure. The plot thickens. I have no idea. I don't know if God commanded those things or people just said He did. I don't take the flood literally but I believe the slaughter of enemy tribes probably happened.


What about this example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muath_Al-Kasasbeh
Here is a Muslim family man who was burned alive in a cage by Isis who claimed to do so in the name of God. If a group of crazy people where kidnapping and killing people saying you told them to do it and that you approved of it, wouldn't you try to stop it or at least denounce it? Why did God not save this person or reveal to us Isis is wrong? Perhaps He already has revealed that you can't do this with murdering in the name of God in the Torah, Gospels. Quran and about any holy book you read. But it doesn't seem enough. Obviously Isis skips over those passages. Why is the world so full of this suffering? Why is the Truth not clearer? I don't know, I have no answers. — MysticMonist

So if God is the greatest being conceivable he should be powerful enough to not give us a chance to do evil. After all, it is greater to keep someone from doing evil rather than idly sitting. If he is great and omnibenevolent why is there evil?

Well, you can say that but if God's intentions are beyond our understanding why does he even attempt to reveal himself through things like Scripture or tradition?

Put another way, if God's intentions are beyond our understanding how can he communicate his intentions to us?

How do you know when God is on your side and when he isn't? — MountainDwarf

These are good questions. Perhaps an analogy will help.

A mother loves her child. She wants her child to be the best - a good person, excel in all fields, a productive member of society, etc. This is a mother's prime objective. The way this is achieved is by encouragement, inspiration, love AND discipline. Discipline is one area where some sternness and force may be required. The child, being immature, lacks the capacity to understand the logic and method of his mother but the end result, if all goes well, is a healthy vibrant member of society. Later, perhaps in adulthood, the person will appreciate both the tender love and the painful punishments/admonishments of his mother.

Likewise the evil we see may be just God's method of teaching us the value of goodness. No?

This is one flaw you've pointed out and one that I can understand. Are there any other problems with the argument? — TheMadFool

The rest of my post. The part(s) you didn't respond to.

The rest of my post. The part(s) you didn't respond to. — Michael

You pointed out two flaws:

1. Question begging
2. Imagining x can make x exist

Likewise the evil we see may be just God's method of teaching us the value of goodness. No? — TheMadFool

Possibly. But that would still make God evil. Right? Would that or would it not justify abuse?