There are plenty of positive masculine images.

The mechanist
The sage
The Prince
The athlete
The Craftsman
The Father
The Warrior
The Good King

There are a few. That men are all about rampant violence and sexual assault (except for me, I'm the white knight to protect all the women from them) brings nothing but stasis. In order to properly criticize something like this, I think that it has to be done in a system of polarities. The shadow, corrupted, immature, borderline, developed, skilled, veteran, master expressions of them, and cannot be denigrated or destroyed entirely, that leaves only stasis, confusion, and aimlessness.

So, what's the deal with expressing masculinity?
Does masculinity vary from individual to individual and why, if so? — Posty McPostface

Society expects men to be masculine, just as it expects women to be feminine. It is part of their folkways and mores.
Expression of both varies from country to country, time period to time period and even religion. So it would affect individuals greatly.

I have grown out a rather nice beard and I feel rather proud of it. — Posty McPostface

You would go down well in muslin countries right now, but a lot of people in the western world look upon them with disfavor. I have a beard and I have it because I like it, don't give a shit whether people think it makes me look masculine or not.

Do the over-masculine or machos just need some love and care in their lives from women? — Posty McPostface

No, most of the time they are just too tied up with themselves trying to please others.

No, most of the time they are just too tied up with themselves trying to please others. — Sir2u

What do you mean by that? I wonder?

You would go down well in muslin countries right now, but a lot of people in the western world look upon them with disfavor. I have a beard and I have it because I like it, don't give a shit whether people think it makes me look masculine or not. — Sir2u

Same here. I don't give two shits about what other people think, so hence my first question to you... Could you be alluding to some sort of neurotic insecurity of the masculine man?

In regards to 'work' as work is the only healthy expression of expressing masculinity in my eyes. The only fields that seem to still entail a healthy sense of masculinity are doctors and engineers to some degree. What I'm saying is that what was once understood as healthy expressions of masculinity or femininity, have lost their meaning due to work only being understood as the process of the accumulation of wealth or money-making. I wish I were wrong on that note though.

I have grown out a rather nice beard and I feel rather proud of it. — Posty McPostface

Do you like the beard for its own sake (its silky smoothness, the fact that it gives your fingers something new to fiddle with while in business meetings (who needs fidget spinners when one has a nice beard?), or maybe that it keeps your chin warm on icy days), or just because it makes a statement of conformity to certain societal gender expectations?

I just like it. That's a bedrock belief of mine. The rest are rationalizations.

Remember that society is just people, not some entity, and we're all products and producers of it. The claim then becomes a misanthropic, self-apologizing one, in which most are deceived and tyrannical, and we're victims of their oppression, and expectations. We, entirely unbiased, lovers of all ideas, expressions, identities, in no way check, expect, or impose opinions and ideologies, as we are altogether above such things.

So, what's the deal with expressing masculinity? — Posty McPostface

What's the deal with publicly, loudly, defiantly expressing anything?

Narcissists in need of attention and approval?

Identify politics as a way to obtain and keep resources in a zero-sum game? The wheel that squeaks the loudest gets the oil?

Who says that we are all either masculine or feminine? Who says we can't be neither one?

I don't know what, if anything, I "express", but this "expressing" business sounds like an unneeded burden.

I suppose it is all about how one wants to be known by others.

But what if the way one wants to be known by others cannot be expressed? What if something can be expressed but nobody will notice​ it?

Or, if people don't care what other people think, is the "expressing" business really a person coping with an internal conflict? You want one thing, your body wants another thing, so you find a happy medium?

Resolving an internal conflict out loud and publicly rather quietly and privately?

Well, in an inter-subjective world where meanings are derived from one's position or context within society, expressing and justifying beliefs is a never-ending process. Only a few philosophers, psychologists, and other sociologists know better. Although there aren't many of them unfortunately in positions of power.

Will the philosopher king please stand up already?

Could you be alluding to some sort of neurotic insecurity of the masculine man? — Posty McPostface

Not really, more of a Freudian thing. Super-ego - ego - id type of conflict. Most people bend to the external pressures just to have a peaceful life. And external pressure is always changing. There are still people that think having a big car is a sign of masculinity, but others think that having your underwear hanging out of your pants is.

The only fields that seem to still entail a healthy sense of masculinity are doctors and engineers to some degree. — Posty McPostface

There are many more female doctors and engineers now that there were before, is that because they have become more masculine? Very doubtful.

What I'm saying is that what was once understood as healthy expressions of masculinity or femininity, have lost their meaning due to work only being understood as the process of the accumulation of wealth or money-making. I wish I were wrong on that note though. — Posty McPostface

I think you are wrong. It is probably because they have found that in many cases a women is equal to a man when it comes to getting the job done. How that makes the guys feel any less masculine I have no idea though.
Work nowadays is, for a lot of people, trying to get by not getting rich. That is why so many women are out there instead of being housewives. Not that I think that women are should be stuck with that job.

I used to be the manager of a transport business, and one of the best works I had there was a women. Changing and repairing truck tires, swapping out busted springs, or welding heavy metal never stopped her from proving how capable she was. If only she had learned not to take her shirt off for washing up along side the men, I might have made her my assistant. :-#

Well, in an inter-subjective world where meanings are derived from one's position or context within society, expressing and justifying beliefs is a never-ending process... — Posty McPostface

Since when are masculinity and femininity "beliefs"?

Only a few philosophers, psychologists, and other sociologists know better. Although there aren't many of them unfortunately in positions of power.

Will the philosopher king please stand up already? — Posty McPostface

Well, I have no idea what I "express" other than my personal thoughts, feelings, emotions, imagination, etc.

I have no idea how anybody can "express" anything other than their own subjective experience.

If you are talking about something culturally constructed, I think the word you need is display.

Unless you mean expressing one's personal response to something culturally constructed--one's personal interpretation of, relationship with, feelings about, attitude towards, or ideal manifestation of masculinity, femininity, etc.

Since when are masculinity and femininity "beliefs"? — WISDOMfromPO-MO

I may have used the wrong word. What would you count them as? Social-constructs?

If you are talking about something culturally constructed, I think the word you need is display. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Is there really a difference between expressing a belief masked as a social construct and on the other hand displaying it?

Does masculinity vary from individual to individual and why, if so? — Posty McPostface

Of course it does. Even if people are pretty much all alike, each of us (male/female) has to work out our way of being in the world, in our case as men. My interpretation and performance of being a gay man was pretty much the same masculinity as my straight peers exhibited, except I was gay and not straight.

The way a lot of men and women behave in their ordinary interactions with other people are largely the same. Hyper masculine men and hyper feminine women are atypical, abnormal types who are sometimes emulated by more ordinary types of people, usually to their own regret.

I grew a beard when I was 24; once it got long enough to call a beard, I recognized that "this is the look that is most me". 47 years later it's white, not brown, but it's still the look that is most me. It's great in the winter.

Men and women both need love and tenderness, caring and respect and they are both capable of giving these things, more or less. I think there are some differences between male and female brains, but we are not dealing with Mars and Venus differences. Men can make bread and women can dig ditches. We all have a fair amount of behavioral flexibility. Some men and women won't display flexibility, and that's just stupid nonsense.

Yeah, but there are some things that symbolize being 'masculine'. Being a bodybuilder with high testosterone levels, or owning a large car, yacht, guns. That's all for display; but, then there's a need to express it too, no?

Is there a certain way that we ought to express masculinity? — Posty McPostface

If our masculinity is not expressing itself, there's not much of it there to express.

Maybe I need to check my hormone levels then? :D

Hey, do you remember the pics I posted on the old forum with my head on different bodies? That's masculine vs non-masculine. I think the solution is to stay away from philosophy. :D

This pure comedy. I do recall some funny pictures of you on bodies of professional bodybuilders. Philosophy gives me sanity, take that away from me, and who knows what will happen. Can one have an excess of sanity?

Look at this place, it isn't exact all that gender diverse, you're pretty much expressing your masculinity by posting here, when you think about it.

Yes, that was pre-philosophy masculine stage. The man in us wants to build stuff from trees and rocks and chase people with clubs. Books, not so much. You can't have everything.

you're pretty much expressing your masculinity by posting here, when you think about it. — Wosret

I wonder if it's ego driven (justifying certain beliefs even if playing devil's advocate) or in the more pure and noble case rather the pursuit of wisdom and truth?

It's probably personality related. We took those big five personality tests recently, and all scored pretty high in openness, which is related with creativity. Men that score high on openness generally are interested in ideas, whereas women that do are generally interested in aesthetics.

It's probably personality related. We took those big five personality tests recently, and all scored pretty high in openness, which is related with creativity. Men that score high on openness generally are interested in ideas, whereas women that do are generally interested in aesthetics. — Wosret

Ehh, that test was 2-3 minutes worth of time. I highly doubt they were comprehensive enough to elucidate our true levels of neuroticism.

Humans can never escape dominance hierarchies and the maneuvering that goes on in them whether that be in a philosophy forum, at a bar, or around the dinner table. The truthy stuff is more or less a sideshow. That's not a value judgement by the way just an observation.

(Think about it, if you were just after the truth, you could just go read some books).

You were clearly too neurotic to answer truthfully. There is a more comprehensive test on the site (300 questions).

The truthy stuff is more or less a sideshow. — Baden

Of course that could be a test of masculinity. The more interested we are in bashing each other with our "truths" and the less interested we are in the actual truth (whatever that is) the more masculine we are (and women can be masculine in this respect too).

You say you 'just like it'. I suppose 'it' is the beard, right? That's eminently understandable. What I don't get is why gender issues have to come into it. Can't you just enjoy your beard without having to worry about silly social constructs like gender?

Maybe, but having high openness does predict that you'd end up somewhere like this.

I doubt that women are good and tempering, and men are violent and domineering. I thought they were capable of the same things, and not that different? That pesky empathy making us partial to things we find attractive, and neglectful or hostile to things we don't is more likely the culprit.

That's why I said women could be masculine in this respect too. Yin/yang, we've all got some of both.

Why is it masculine to be cruel and domineering, and feminine to be loving and tempering though? I prefer to think of both in neutral, rather than such charged ways.