Why does Bill Clinton not get held accountable by feminists? I have never understood this. — fishfry
Both are relevant and what Bill did to Monica is a perfect example of a person of power using that for/or against a woman he has a sexual interest in. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Both are relevant and what did Monica to Bill is a perfect example of a person of power using that for/or against a man she has a sexual interest in. — Sir2u
Thankfully, it was not rape but it was sexual harassment and/ or abuse in the work place, which Monica should not have to have endured. I wonder what would have happened if she would have filed a complaint of sexual harassment and/ or abuse by a sitting President. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Maintaining that her affair with Clinton was one between two consenting adults, Lewinsky writes that it was the public humiliation she suffered in the wake of the scandal that permanently altered the direction of her life: “Sure, my boss took advantage of me, but I will always remain firm on this point: it was a consensual relationship. Any ‘abuse’ came in the aftermath, when I was made a scapegoat in order to protect his powerful position. . . . The Clinton administration, the special prosecutor’s minions, the political operatives on both sides of the aisle, and the media were able to brand me. And that brand stuck, in part because it was imbued with power.”
I'm not making light of sexual harassment. Nobody should be pressured to fuck the boss or supervisor or co-worker--except where the rewards are going to be very attractive. — Bitter Crank
. But workers are at the mercy of their employers (thanks to corporate interests killing off unions). Workers have no job security (employment at will means you can be fired for any reason), no freedom of speech while on the job, and no real protection from unreasonable demands -- of any kind. — Bitter Crank
Harvey Weinstein may be a creep, but Hollywood has been run by energetic, creative, ingenious egotistical, manipulative, jerks since the place started making movies. Why are we so surprised when one of these guys is called out for being a jerk?? — Bitter Crank
It's presumptuous to assume that a relationship is abusing or harassment just because one person has more power than another. — Michael
Any ‘abuse’ came in the aftermath, when I was made a scapegoat in order to protect his powerful position. — Monica
I agree with you. I find Mitch's comment degrading:But the aftermath is part of the relationship, so in this case it is not presumptuous. But one ought to be presumptuous in any case. One ought to presume that power imbalances will lead to manufactured consent, as is the case in prostitution. That is why many professional bodies prohibit such relationships absolutely, such as doctors with patients, teachers with children. which is to say that if Monica and Bill want to have a consensual sexual relationship, they can do so in my book as soon as they are no longer in a professional power relationship. It is a matter of protecting the vulnerable in general from exploitation and abuse, even if some of them quite like being abused in particular situations.
We might even find it plausible that Harvey Weinstein's 'weakness' was on occasion exploited by ambitious women, or that Monica herself exploited Bill's inability to pass up a chance to play the lover-boy to further her career; one never knows. But however it works, and whoever is being exploited, there are other parties to consider: the PAs or actresses who do not compromise their virtue, and the audiences and electors who are potentially deprived of the best person to be doing the job. — unenlightened
It's presumptuous to assume that a relationship is abusive or harassment just because one person has more power than another. — Michael
Thankfully, it was not rape — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Monica's to advance her career and Willey to continue on his pattern of taking advantage of women who fall at his feet, without getting caught? — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Correct me if I am wrong but what I am reading is that you might believe that if the rewards are good enough, a boss or supervisor should be able to come onto an employee? — ArguingWAristotleTiff
To start with I should let you know that AZ is a right to work state which also means the right to fire without reason given state. I believe Unions represent 4% of workers in AZ which seems very low in comparison to say, Minnesota or Illinois. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Strange thing, nobody - absolutely nobody - voted in this poll. I guess TPF members aren't very open with regards to this sort of thing. — Agustino
I agree about Clinton incidentally and the same thing applies. It's quite possible he's a rapist but people just shrug as if that's what the rich and powerful do and now we've got it out in the open everything's OK as if he's been punished enough. No, these people need to be behind bars not podiums. — Baden
I meant to apply the rewards to the employee who accepts sexual exploitation as a way of getting ahead. In other words, an employee might find it advantageous to tolerate being exploited. It does happen that people screw their way upwards in an organization. The exploiter has generally already obtained a superior position.
Monica Lewinsky probably calculated greater advantage from sex with Bill than calling a press conference announcing that Bill had come on to her (literally). — Bitter Crank
So I think was the eye contact. And the way he looks at women he’s attracted to. He undresses you with his eyes. And it is slow, from the bottom of your toes to the top of your head back down to your toes again. And it’s an intense look. He loses his smile. His sexual energy kind of comes over his eyes, and it’s very animalistic. And if you’re someone who is comfortable with your sensuality, you’re in touch with that, you’re receptive to it if you find that person attractive.
It's presumptuous to assume that a relationship is abusive or harassment just because one person has more power than another. — Michael
What I am suggesting is that the 'playing field' is not equal when one person holds professional power over another. The superior should be expected to rise to a stricter set of rules when interacting with those he manages. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
You never heard of any other credible rape allegations against Bill Clinton? They've got their own Wiki page. Before one of the 2016 presidential debates, Trump brought a group of Bubba's accusers to a press conference. You don't remember that? — fishfry
You are right that we will never know the whole story but Monica had enough "proof" to show that he cheated on his wife and that is about it. I never heard her cry fowl about being forced to do something against her will. Bill got in trouble for lying not for getting a bj though many thought it was lacking all class to treat the Oval office that way.Personally I think it was probably her idea that they got caught so that she could become famous. But I, like everyone else in the public don't and probably will never know the whole story. — Sir2u
I really don't like the idea of anyone with authority using it like that, as a man it is not the correct way to behave no matter what position you hold. But shit happens. — Sir2u
They were consenting adults and she could have walked away. If she was as good a worker to have a position that put next to a president she could have found work anywhere. But she wanted and accepted the deal that was offered so that makes her just as responsible as the idiot with his fly open. — Sir2u
How would the people have seen things if Hilary had been the president and she was caught getting some nooky? Would the people have cried fowl as well? — Sir2u
Yes they were both adults and consenting but I doubt if he was a news paper salesman she would have pursued him for any reason. It was because of his position of power that she fell for him which is why she never called rape or sexual molestation. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Getting fired because someone lied about you, or because somebody just didn't like you and had made trouble for you, or because the boss just didn't like your long hair, or short hair, or whatever hair -- all sorts of reasons -- can be devastating. One suddenly finds one's self without an income, insurance, cut off from the social circle of work, etc. — Bitter Crank
Also very common is injury on the job or sickness because of the job because it was cheaper to have an unsafe, unhealthy workplace. — Bitter Crank
This is considered normal by many people who howl about sexual harassment. — Bitter Crank
I wasn't clear. I meant to apply the rewards to the employee who accepts sexual exploitation as a way of getting ahead. In other words, an employee might find it advantageous to tolerate being exploited. It does happen that people screw their way upwards in an organization. The exploiter has generally already obtained a superior position. — Bitter Crank
Sexual exploitation is a specialty within the general practice of exploiting employees (aka, workers). "All workers can expect to be harassed on the job, sooner or later, whatever form the harassment takes. The reason for this is that most jobs are exploitation to start with. Sexual harassment is but a specialty." — Bitter Crank
If we are going to be against harassment and exploitation, then we should be against harassment and exploitation across the board. — Bitter Crank
I recall being assaulted at a nightclub once. Some girl walked past me, grabbed me by the balls, and then walked away.
I just thought it a really weird thing to do. — Michael
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