This is a very funny caricature of what most people think philosophy is about. I don't see any sign that you intend it to be ironic. — T Clark

Pathos, man

Really, happiness is a delirious escape into the infinite, a transcendence of Being, precisely because Being is not good. — darthbarracuda

Why frame it as an escape? The "transcendence of Being" is also just a mode of being, a way of being. Don't you "write off" the most positive possibility of being as escape only to judge the leftovers as bad? I realize that being can show itself in terrible ways, of course.

Nature makes "mistakes", things that don't belong. Frankly it's surprising to me we've managed to hold on for as long as we have. Nature puked us out from its bowels, like everything else. — darthbarracuda

Isn't this an interpretation of Nature though? I agree that we are thrown into hazard and a certain amount of suffering. But "mistake" only makes sense to me in contrast to a projection of an ought.

As an interesting side note, many priests and religious leaders consider philosophy the subject just behind by one step to religion itself.

And, how much melancholy do we see in religion? Tons of it. The whole thing from the Abrahamic tradition is based on the fall of mankind from Eden, and then all misery starts. Even in Greek'o-Roman polytheistic theology, there were strong notions of melancholy...

Nitpicking an individual and saying that it's mostly due to their own bias or such is just a pure ad hom in my mind.

Therefore, it is true you cannot have wisdom without some knowledge. The point I made was that knowledge without wisdom (which is entirely possible) is vain. — Lone Wolf

If you want people to understand what you are attempting to convey, then don't say things like depending solely on your own understanding and capacity to achieve wisdom is vain.

I totally agree, this actually happened to me and only just recently recovered. There was inflammation of my liver and salivary glands that is provoked by stress, but last year my weight dramatically dropped to 47kg after the accident because of this hurt that I refused to eat anything but fruit and drink soup. I had such incredibly low levels of protein, lean mass and fats that protect the organs that my doctor was like how are you even walking? I slowly - this year actually - started eating again, because I faced what it was that was hurting me in order to recover and the increase in protein and regular exercise - gym, yoga etc - now puts me at perfect weight and no inflammation at all.

I'm not ideal, at least in my book. I'm definitely well above average shape, but those damn fitness models still lord their perfection over me. I make an effort, and continually have been for only like six years or something now, which isn't really all that long, and have made a lot of headway. Hoping to continue to improve for at least six more years.

Still many things I could change, can't say that I'm manic, but I'm usually in a good mood, baring circumstances. Most noticeably, and thankfully for me is the complete overcoming of a life long anxiety problem. Used to have panic attacks, and really high anxiety and pounding heart, and stress all the time, and pretty much all my life. At one point I couldn't even eat solid food, couldn't swallow, kept choking, and lived for like a year on soup myself.

I know, I saw your sexy pegs in your condescension of my yoga moves, but there are other reference points to work on; I find at our age, it is not achieving exterior physical perfection apart from maintaining a healthy body weight. Blood tests, for instance, last year showed I had low HDL, T-Protein, Iron and dangerously high levels of ALT that I worked on changing (among others) because it was mostly dietary, which was linked to my emotional state. I walked large distances for work, because I needed the money to survive and had no car, that only fuelled the weight loss. Aside from that, the conditions in my environment were changed where I expelled all the negative people - despite me caring or even loving them - from my life and planned for things that I wanted in the future, which enabled me to escape that existential non-temporality.

I am now unapologetically at peace and content and I found a natural balance between happy and sad, but I still feel like there is just a bit more to go. I have spent so much time focusing on this recovery that now I am almost recovered, I am provoked to focus on what comes next.

Good on you, Wosret (Y)

If you want people to understand what you are attempting to convey, then don't say things like depending solely on your own understanding and capacity to achieve wisdom is vain. — TimeLine

What is so hard to understand about that?

In my experience, wisdom means giving something up - release, surrender. — T Clark

I relate. For me it's connected to letting go of some of what one felt one needed to control, needed to be true, needed to be.

I relate. For me it's connected to letting go of some of what one felt one needed to control, needed to be true, needed to be. — t0m

Here's a little scene I act out when I'm trying to be funny. I'm not sure it will translate well in words:

Intelligence vs. Wisdom:
Intelligence - Man bangs his head on the wall. Ow!! Boy, I won't do that again.
Wisdom - Man bangs his head on the wall. Ow!!. Bang. Ow!! Bang. Ow!! Bang. Ow!! Bang. Ow!! Hey.... wait a minute!

I thought you'd give wisdom the better role. Seems like intelligence is just faster wisdom in that scenario?

Intelligence: is reality mind or matter or X or Y or what?

Wisdom: why am I asking this? and is this question likely to lead to that goal? is it the only path?

I thought you'd give wisdom the better role. Seems like intelligence is just faster wisdom in that scenario? — t0m

I'm a smart guy. There are things I get the first time around. There are other things I've gotten only after beating my head against the wall for years, decades. The easy lessons have answers. For the hard lessons, the only answer is to give up and accept the way things are. That's wisdom.

Ah. Very nice explanation.

Wisdom is not in vain, but knowledge alone is. Depending solely on your own understanding and capacity to achieve wisdom is vain. — Lone Wolf

If you think you have articulated yourself well enough with the above statement, then all the best bouncing off clouds with Tori Amos.

I'm glad to hear that you are better off, and continue improving, sorry about the condescending comment, lol.

Talking about this just makes me think about how much more I should be doing.

Ernest Hemingway — ‘Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.’

Philosophers are at a disadvantage from the start.

Ernest Hemingway — ‘Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.’

Philosophers are at a disadvantage from the start. — Baden

Now some smart person will respond "I don't want to be happy, I want to be wise." Which is like saying "I don't want to breathe, but I would really like a sandwich."

I don't want to breathe, but I would really like a sandwich.

I'm smart.

Love, friendship, health, pleasure, joy, interest, fearlessness, conversation, fellowship, curiosity, understanding, compassion, gratitude, generosity — T Clark

I understand. It's something I always say to pessimists but they don't seem to agree. Why?

On a side note, I actually think this is not true, particularly if we take an existential approach where Sartre will say that all we need is the courage to create our own purpose, what helps you overcome the despair that knowledge awakens.

Sandwiches give me nausea. Anyhow, Sartre wasn't a exactly a barrel of laughs. The condolences of existentialism are just that. Condolences are offered to the suffering. On the other hand I doubt many would trade away their intelligence or their melancholy to be Mill's fool, so I'll settle for the sandwiches and the nausea (and an oxygen tent??).

Come now, surely our existential position and the very vanity itself is ultimately one giant joke. That is why he too felt nausea, but there are little flashes of sun on the surface of a cold, dark sea. Courage, the courage to be free and to laugh at it all.

That would be my approach but it doesn't come in a bottle at the local supermarket. Telling a melancholic person to just laugh at it all is unlikely to work.

That is why I disagree that philosophers are at a disadvantage. At the very least, they have the aptitude to access the local philosophical supermarket.

Maybe the battle against melancholy in yourself has wider implications than you realize. Telling someone to cheer up isn't nearly as powerful as being cheerful. A light onto the world, and all that.

Good point.



My melancholy manifests itself in a kind of restless good cheer these days, rather than anxiety which is the killer, so I am indeed armed with a lamp though what it illuminates is open to question.

If you think you have articulated yourself well enough with the above statement, then all the best bouncing off clouds with Tori Amos. — TimeLine

Every single person on the face of planet earth has a teacher of some sort. No one in his or her right mind thinks he or she does not need any help ever and knows all things. I am sure you can agree with this, you're not stupid.

↪Baden I don't want to breathe, but I would really like a sandwich.

↪T Clark I'm smart. — TimeLine

Why am I not surprised? There has never been any doubt you are smart. Given that you'd rather have the sandwich, you might even be smarter than I.

Why am I not surprised? There has never been any doubt you are smart. Given that you'd rather have the sandwich, you might even be smarter than I — T Clark

It's "smarter than me."