Our culture thrives on addictive personalities. It continually pushes us to consume. — Cavacava

I don't know whether our culture thrives on addictive personalities, but consumption is not merely pushed, it's ram-jacked. The poverty of everyday life is relieved largely through shopping. It isn't that people can't resist plastic geegaws. It is that they are desperate to find something interesting in life, and shopping is offered as the most effective cure.

Were American consumers to moderate their consumption -- reduce by 15% to 20% their discretionary spending, our economy would slide into a prolonged recession. Recessions cause real pain. Basic needs for most of the population have been met. Growth can not come from meeting basic needs: growth in sales and profits has to come out of discretionary spending. The G20 countries are capitalist: Investors demand continuous growth in profits.

What is true for us is true for the G20 nations: all of the advanced economies are dependent on robust discretionary spending for growth. Meeting basic needs keeps many of the industries going: housing, transportation, food, heating, electricity, communications, and the basic industries like metals, refining, mining, agriculture, etc. which support them. There is not a lot of growth potential in meeting stable basic needs. Growth comes in generating and selling new wants--all the stuff that goes into discretionary spending. Like buying new bigger cars

Everyone now has a cell phone, a computer, a television, a car, a house or apartment, a refrigerator, and so on and so forth. We do not need to change cell phones every year (or less), and the same for all the other gadgets and durable goods, like cars and houses. We don't need to buy new outfits to wear every few months. We are driven (not addicted) to buy all this stuff by a massive array of manufacturing, distribution, retail, and advertising systems. Ever shopped at IKEA? A lot of their stuff is K-Mart grade products -- cheap plastic. There is only one aisle in the store, and it winds around from the top to the bottom, so that you have to walk past every kind of attractively displayed merchandise they have for sale.

Google didn't get rich looking up words or obscure web sites for us. It got rich by selling and placing advertising for products which, by and large, we do not need. But Google is good at putting the ads for stuff we don't need in front of the right eyeballs.

It's not addiction, it's desperation.

ps I wanted to make sure I wasn't exaggerating when I said the US guards the poppy fields in Afghanistan. Google served me up this link real quick. I love Google.

Drug War? American Troops Are Protecting Afghan Opium. U.S. Occupation Leads to All-Time High Heroin Production

The date is June 24, 2017. This is happening on your dime (if you're a US taxpayer) and with your pro-rated share of moral culpability.

There's your drug war folks.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/drug-war-american-troops-are-protecting-afghan-opium-u-s-occupation-leads-to-all-time-high-heroin-production/5358053

ps -- I just have to quote this bit. This is a quote from an article in Common Dreams.

The cultivation of opium poppy in Afghanistan—a nation under the military control of US and NATO forces for more than twelve years—has risen to an all-time high, according to the 2013 Afghanistan Opium Survey released Wednesday by the United Nations.

According to the report, cultivation of poppy across the war-torn nation rose 36 per cent in 2013 and total opium production amounted to 5,500 tons, up by almost a half since 2012.

“This has never been witnessed before in the history of Afghanistan,” said Jean-Luc Lemahieu, the outgoing leader of the Afghanistan office of the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, which produced the report.

And now in 2017 the crop is the new world's record. That's what the war in Afghanistan about. We're in the dope business.

Regarding marijuana,

There's been a strong tendency from the government to prevent the use of marijuana. I don't entirely know how to put this; but, marijuana tends to break down the drive for consumerism or at the very least provides a short sense of relief from the utter urge to consume (apart from food). Governments have recognized that marijuana tends to break down the desire to consume or follow with the social conditioning that many people are brought up with. I have no idea how to rationalize on some deeper neurological level.

Then there's the issue of consumerism itself and how it relates to drug use. Again, it seems half-baked; but, there seems to be a strong link between satisfaction (or rather the lack of it) and consuming goods. Drugs tend to amplify the feeling of satisfaction; but, we all know that that is a short-lived feeling and tends to subside after the effects of the drug have worn off. Consumerism is like gambling, fun as long as there is money to spend. It's ridiculous how easy it is to spend money on the internet. It's literally too easy. People who have limited self-restraint or have a high urge to instant gratification are prone to becoming poor or engage in drug use, which is exploited to the detriment of people nowadays by consumerism.

There's also a strong sense of liberty and individualism being professed by drug consumption. The laws against it also don't help dissuade people from their lure and appeal. Perhaps, it is something that is really interesting to do, although the effects subside after prolonged use.

I believe that people find it harder and harder to connect with people or their families and this tends to leave a gaping hole that needs to be filled with some sort of entertainment or more consumption.

Then, there's the strange reason why drugs aren't seen as a societal issue and instead as a legal or illegal choice. If communities got together or were more close, then I suspect drug use would plummet.

Still, a topic worth exploring more in detail in my opinion.

How about drinking wine, smoking cigars, pipes and cigarettes (not to mention chewin' tobacca) and knocking back caffeine-rich beverages? — Janus

Same deal (apart from wine probably - grape juice), which is why I avoid all of them.

We weren't designed by evolution to be smoking weed, — Agustino

I pointed out that our brains have receptors for cannabinoid molecules. Therefore you should be surprised. Why ARE you not surprised? Am I being too literal in some way? — fishfry

How do you go from the fact that we have brain structures capable of handling cannabinoid molecules to "we were designed by evolution to be smoking weed"? Those structures haven't evolved because we were smoking weed - they have evolved for completely unrelated uses. Thus, when we smoke weed, we put something in the body that we haven't evolved to handle well. We obviously do have structures which handle it - we don't die, at least not immediately. But this isn't why those structures evolved.

Drugs tend to amplify the feeling of satisfaction; but, we all know that that is a short-lived feeling and tends to subside after the effects of the drug have worn off... People who have limited self-restraint or have a high urge to instant gratification are prone to becoming poor or engage in drug use, which is exploited to the detriment of people nowadays by consumerism. — Posty McPostface

When I was helping a young girl remove herself from a toxic environment that enabled her addiction to drugs to appear normalised, her high level of anxiety seemed to be matched with a high intelligence that she could not communicate or utilise effectively as though her ability to identify with the external world was not coherent. She was surrounded by people who were negative and intellectually beneath her capacity but at the same time she cared for them, and so it is like being caught in a bad dream and not being able to move or say anything.

She had to survive that lack of coherency to confront the reality of her situation, to survive the feelings and care she felt for the people around her but who were at the same time very bad for her that she could not understand and so her drug-use became a tool to survive that lack of control. To be conscious and fluently communicate how you feel requires a certain objectivity and that would mean to confront a separateness, a disconnection from the people in her life and that choice is far too much for some people because it clearly pronounces the reality that they are alone.

That is scary and leads to the assumption that there is only two choices and most choose the lesser of two evils; to be around such people but remain miserable. It is better than being miserable and alone. The other choice is far too confrontational as you pretty much disregard the fabric of your identity and everything you have thought was true or real; it is like dying. To recognise that you actually don't like the people you love and if you have low self-esteem, there is no chance that you would believe in yourself and believe in your capacity to find happiness away from that environment.

Erich Fromm said that the root of all our anxieties are caused by this separateness or aloneness, and the resemblance between drugs and consumerism is rooted in this very anxiety. The addiction to drugs help overcome the feelings of disconnection and because of the low self-esteem, they believe that they are unable to self-regulate their behaviour. Substance abuse is symptomatic of a type of apathy to one's own self, they shut down and just don't care because it is easier than actually feeling the anxiety (which I believe is a form of pain).

Consumerism offers another form of alleviation from this anxiety and we believe that the next purchase will make us happy when - just like drugs - we are caught in a vicious cycle where the next purchase never seems to end; drugs are helping her to survive when it is at the same time causing her destruction (of who we actually are). It is deliberate self-destruction and any justifications for it are formed by this apathy. The only way to find happiness is to leave that environment and start taking care of yourself, to basically accept the death of your former identity and begin anew.

There's been a strong tendency from the government to prevent the use of marijuana. I don't entirely know how to put this; but, marijuana tends to break down the drive for consumerism or at the very least provides a short sense of relief from the utter urge to consume (apart from food). Governments have recognized that marijuana tends to break down the desire to consume or follow with the social conditioning that many people are brought up with — Posty McPostface

I think you understand more than you realize for you are describing how the theory actually works. It has been said that "Weed will get you through times of no money, better than money will get you through times of no weed." People who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life and many do not feel the need to take part in the inflated consumerism, to the degree that non marijuana smokers might.

@Cavacava A portion of your reply has been posted on The Philosophy Forum Facebook page. Congratulations and Thank you for your contribution~

People who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life and many do not feel the need to take part in the inflated consumerism, to the degree that non marijuana smokers might. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Do they? So, people who smoke marijuana don't have an iPhone or a pair of Nike sneakers, because apparently they're more content in life considering the drug itself is very cause of this temporary alleviation of anxiety that enables this contentment? Or that addict that walks around on the street, lacking hygiene and unable to take care of himself, he must be content? I am not sure if it is inflated consumerism or inflated egos here, but I would suggest a more thorough approach to the subject because I have seen quite the reverse.

Exactly.

Nicotine, caffeine, cocaine, opioids, cannabis... all attach to specific sites. That these sites exist doesn't mean we evolved to use the drugs. Europeans, for instance, found nicotine quite amusing back in the 16th century, when tobacco was abruptly introduced. The receptors came first, then certain plant alkaloids became popular because they stimulated those receptors.

Male canaries (reportedly) sing more when they are fed cannabis seeds. Did they evolve to eat cannabis? No. Robins that eat fermented fruit get drunk. Did they evolve to get drunk? No,

And now in 2017 the crop is the new world's record. That's what the war in Afghanistan about. We're in the dope business. — fishfry

Or maybe the Taliban is in the dope business. But... whoever produces it, the US is one of several big markets for opiates.

People who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life and many do not feel the need to take part in the inflated consumerism, to the degree that non marijuana smokers might. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I understand you have some quite specific interests in cannabis, but I wonder whether the contentedness you have attributed to using cannabis is a chicken/egg problem. Do people prefer cannabis because they are already laid back, contented, un-acquisitive ... or were they very anxious people, up-tight, and acquisitive before they used cannabis and then found salvation in weed? I've known regular cannabis users who clearly need something stronger than weed if they are going to calm down.

The other thing is that many people have achieved these laudable states of peacefulness without using any drugs at all--not even alcohol. (Beats me how they do it.)

Or maybe the Taliban is in the dope business. — Bitter Crank

But that's an absolute falsehood. By 2002 the Taliban had virtually eliminated the opium trade in Afghanistan.

Are you this seriously uninformed? Or just shilling for the neverending war?

I'm genuinely puzzled by your factually wrong claim.

ps -- Facts for the fact-challenged.

In July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the United Nations to eradicate heroin production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. The Taliban enforced a ban on poppy farming via threats, forced eradication, and public punishment of transgressors. The result was a 99% reduction in the area of opium poppy farming in Taliban-controlled areas, roughly three quarters of the world's supply of heroin at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan#Rise_of_the_Taliban_.281994.E2.80.932001.29

Of course that ended with the invasion of Afghanistan by the US in 2002. Now the opium crop is at record levels, thanks to the good old U S of A. And in totally unrelated news, the US is having an opiate crisis. Move along, nothing to see here.

Do people prefer cannabis because they are already laid back, contented, un-acquisitive ... or were they very anxious people, up-tight, and acquisitive before they used cannabis and then found salvation in weed? — Bitter Crank

It is not uncommon for people to feel that they are "better", and more caring while stoned,and that this feeds back into sober life.

I just tossed out the comment on the Taliban without giving it much thought, but apparently I was that seriously misinformed. I did a quick scan of some Google results on Afghan drug production and trade, and apparently you are correct -- assuming the information I read has the Good Housekeeping Seal Of Approval.

I'm genuinely puzzled by your factually wrong claim. — fishfry

I rarely make mistakes of any kind, seeing as how I am nearly omniscient, but I can't be right all the time. It's just not possible. Damn!

Thank you for bringing my error to my attention. No good deed goes unpunished, and you'll get yours later.

No good deed goes unpunished, and you'll get yours later. — Bitter Crank

I have no doubt :-) Thanks for the comments.

People who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life and many do not feel the need to take part in the inflated consumerism, to the degree that non marijuana smokers might.

Do they? — TimeLine

Yes, as I said above, people who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life.

So, people who smoke marijuana don't have an iPhone or a pair of Nike sneakers, because apparently they're more content in life considering the drug itself is very cause of this temporary alleviation of anxiety that enables this contentment? — TimeLine

I don't agree with your statement "considering the drug itself is the very cause of the temporary alleviation of anxiety that enable this contentment". You are assuming that there is anxiety about not having the 'stuff' consumerism promotes such as an iPhone or a pair of Nike sneakers.

What I am suggesting is that people who smoke marijuana, are often the same people who share a car instead of owning two, who give away more than they keep or who will cover the difference of someone who comes up short for their purchases, all which fly in the face of falling victim to an inflated level of consumerism. It would be erroneous to believe that people who smoke marijuana are any less caring just because some don't see the value in the consumerism happening around them. Having said that, some marijuana smokers are indeed tempted to be constantly upping their financial consumption, who are jumping into their leased car, heading to a 9 to 5 career, only to be standing next to a fellow college, with drink in hand at the bar by 6pm.

Or that addict that walks around on the street, lacking hygiene and unable to take care of himself, he must be content? — TimeLine

I am not speaking about "that addict" I am speaking of some marijuana smokers. Not everyone who smokes marijuana is an "addict" (I will use your word addict and let it pass because physically you cannot become addicted to marijuana, habitual addiction yes, physical addiction no) anymore than the person who attends happy hour for alcohol, being an alcoholic.

I understand you have some quite specific interests in cannabis, but I wonder whether the contentedness you have attributed to using cannabis is a chicken/egg problem. Do people prefer cannabis because they are already laid back, contented, un-acquisitive ... or were they very anxious people, up-tight, and acquisitive before they used cannabis and then found salvation in weed? I've known regular cannabis users who clearly need something stronger than weed if they are going to calm down.

The other thing is that many people have achieved these laudable states of peacefulness without using any drugs at all--not even alcohol. (Beats me how they do it.) — Bitter Crank

BitterCrank, I know you understand that I am an advocate for the use and formal study of Cannabis. You probably already know that I am choosing to live a life Opiate free, after a severe addiction to OxyContin and Cannabis is the only pain reliever at my disposal. I am allergic to Aspirin, IB causes my Ulcers to bleed and we wonder why even Tylenol makes my ulcers bleed but that could be attributed to the year that I stayed awake on Meth. The only way I took Meth was by mixing it in a bit of juice and drinking it. My thinking is that the Meth may have called pin holes in my stomach lining but I don't know that for sure. I just know that there are going to be a LOT more people out there that are going to need to get off of Opiates forever and Cannabis might be their only option for pain control. I can tell you I had oral surgery, with bone grafting and a suture around the surgery sight and only had to take only two Somas on day one and three, the rest was pain control via a Cannabis extract called RSO or Rick Simpson Oil, whose dose is the size of a single grain of rice. Forgive me if I explain in such detail, but I was damn impressed with my ability to get through that without what would have been in the past at least 30 Percocet ingested.

To answer your chicken/egg question: I don't really know. I have seen it go both ways where laid back people who consume Cannabis are even more laid back once under the influence and I know people who were uptight, acquisitive, very anxious people and tried to find their "salvation in weed" and it wound them up even tighter. But I cannot think of a Cannabis consumer that is striving for the house on the hill or for the 2018 Acura with all the bells and whistles. What I can think of is Cannabis consumers that are raising well mannered children, a decrease in the use of physical discipline with children, a shift in their focus from obtaining 'things' to focusing on the contentment their lives are now.

The other thing is that many people have achieved these laudable states of peacefulness without using any drugs at all--not even alcohol. (Beats me how they do it.) — Bitter Crank

I have heard that Faith is a good alternative. O:)

Yes, as I said above, people who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Oh, forgive me, I did not know that you somehow knew all people all over the world who smoke marijuana and thus have some transnational power that has enabled you to verify all smokers are content with where they are in life. And here I was, silly little me, thinking that smoking causes a temporary sense of contentment because they are unhappy or miserable, which therefore verifies they are in fact not content and the smoking is the tool to assist with that sense of contentment.

I don't agree with your statement "considering the drug itself is the very cause of the temporary alleviation of anxiety that enable this contentment". You are assuming that there is anxiety about not having the 'stuff' consumerism promotes such as an iPhone or a pair of Nike sneakers. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

What? No, I am saying that a person who takes drugs can still be a consumerist; the world is not you or the people you know. Are you saying that drugs do not alleviate the anxiety that enables one to feel contentment? Geez, then why would people take it?

Taking drugs temporarily alleviates anxiety and gives one a sense of calm and contentment, but that is taking away the anxiety that ultimately returns and thus the cycle is that one relies on the drugs to enable a faux contentment. Consumerism offers the same.

What I am suggesting is that people who smoke marijuana, are often the same people who share a car instead of owning two, who give away more than they keep or who will cover the difference of someone who comes up short for their purchases, all which fly in the face of falling victim to an inflated level of consumerism. It would be erroneous to believe that people who smoke marijuana are any less caring just because some don't see the value in the consumerism happening around them. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

This is hilarious. I really don't know how to respond to it but the justification is bordering the absurd.

some marijuana smokers are indeed tempted to be constantly upping their financial consumption, who are jumping into their leased car, heading to a 9 to 5 career, only to be standing next to a fellow college, with drink in hand at the bar by 6pm. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

:-|

I am not speaking about "that addict" I am speaking of some marijuana smokers. Not everyone who smokes marijuana is an "addict" (I will use your word addict and let it pass because physically you cannot become addicted to marijuana, habitual addiction yes, physical addiction no) anymore than the person who attends happy hour for alcohol, being an alcoholic. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

The most powerful of addictions are the habitual, the constant need to return until you form a tolerance or a need to continue the cycle. It is the first stage of forming an addiction. The rituals of spending time getting high soon enough loses the control that one has over the drug that they become dependent on it and for those who have pre-existing or a vulnerable to mental health issues, the development of an enduring psychotic illness is of serious concern. Any denial of that and of the existing research that indicates that is disturbing.

Oh, forgive me, I did not know that you somehow knew all people all over the world who smoke marijuana and thus have some transnational power that has enabled you to verify all smokers are content with where they are in life. And here I was, silly little me, thinking that smoking causes a temporary sense of contentment because they are unhappy or miserable, which therefore verifies they are in fact not content and the smoking is the tool to assist with that sense of contentment. — TimeLine

Yes, for you, it is recommended that your try smoking it, out of the bong if possible, to get an authentic experience and feel content with your life. Hope you enjoy :D :

I don't know how you find that remotely funny.

I don't know how you find that remotely funny. — TimeLine

Stoner Mom (L)

>:O

?

Do you like Stoner Mom? :B Your ideal perhaps? :B

I'm not sure why you think I - or anyone else - watches the videos you paste everywhere, neither do I understand what merits these stupid responses from you, but all you are doing is embarrassing yourself. This is not the shoutbox, someone has created this thread for a reason.

Do you like Stoner Mom? :B Your ideal perhaps? :B — Agustino

Ever heard of trolling?

Yes, as I said above, people who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life. — ArguingWAristotleTiff — TimeLine

Oh, forgive me, I did not know that you somehow knew all people all over the world who smoke marijuana and thus have some transnational power that has enabled you to verify all smokers are content with where they are in life. And here I was, silly little me, thinking that smoking causes a temporary sense of contentment because they are unhappy or miserable, which therefore verifies they are in fact not content and the smoking is the tool to assist with that sense of contentment. — TimeLine

I have been very careful in not saying that "all" do anything. I have said "often become" but that is quite different from "always become". As far as your "thinking that smoking causes a temporary sense of contentment because they are unhappy or miserable" is true in some cases and maybe even prevalent in your experiences. However, I am drawing off of my own experiences and as a patient advocate, I am in the position to help registered patients find the pain relief they are seeking, I am not in the position to try to talk them out of it. Of the three patients, in the last four years, that I as a fellow patient have advocated for, three have died so my record would appear on the surface to be nothing to applaud but to the families of the loved ones we lost? My guidance was something they valued more than money itself. The Cannabis patients I have been involved with so far were at the point where money is no object, not because the push of consumerism but rather a chance at a greater quality end of life.

"I don't agree with your statement "considering the drug itself is the very cause of the temporary alleviation of anxiety that enable this contentment". You are assuming that there is anxiety about not having the 'stuff' consumerism promotes such as an iPhone or a pair of Nike sneakers." ArguingWAristotleTiff

What? No, I am saying that a person who takes drugs can still be a consumerist; the world is not you or the people you know. Are you saying that drugs do not alleviate the anxiety that enables one to feel contentment? Geez, then why would people take it? — TimeLine

The experiences I have to draw on are quite different from yours, which is fine but there is a difference. To answer your question of whether or not people would take Cannabis to alleviate "anxiety" is situation dependent. Some strains of Cannabis increase anxiety where others have a calming effect, if the right strain is found, the anxiety comes into check, based upon each persons body chemistry.

Taking drugs temporarily alleviates anxiety and gives one a sense of calm and contentment, but that is taking away the anxiety that ultimately returns and thus the cycle is that one relies on the drugs to enable a faux contentment. Consumerism offers the same. — TimeLine

I am not sure who your source is about how Cannabis can interact with a person's chemistry but the never ending cycle you speak of is not always the case. As shocking as it may be, there are people who are not stuck in the cycle of consumerism or the cycle of addiction.

"What I am suggesting is that people who smoke marijuana, are often the same people who share a car instead of owning two, who give away more than they keep or who will cover the difference of someone who comes up short for their purchases, all which fly in the face of falling victim to an inflated level of consumerism. It would be erroneous to believe that people who smoke marijuana are any less caring just because some don't see the value in the consumerism happening around them." ArguingWAristotleTiff

This is hilarious. I really don't know how to respond to it but the justification is bordering the absurd. — TimeLine

Absurdity is an important part of Philosophy. The ability to embrace the absurd allows one to hear the other end of the spectrum, so you know where everybody 'can' stand, regardless of the popular position. Some people understand the importance of absurdity in relation to Philosophy and others do not, it either is or it isn't. And from the sounds of it, you are not familiar with the perspective of the absurdity, that is around 'thinkers' or arm chair philosophers, us.

"some marijuana smokers are indeed tempted to be constantly upping their financial consumption, who are jumping into their leased car, heading to a 9 to 5 career, only to be standing next to a fellow college, with drink in hand at the bar by 6pm. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

:-| — TimeLine

I do apologize for the misspelling as I meant 'colleagues' not college but my point stands. The consumption of alcohol is the consumption of a drug and happy hour comes once a day and colleagues who look down their nose at Cannabis consumers are standing on the same ground, they just haven't realized it yet because they are waiting for society to say it's acceptable.

"I am not speaking about "that addict" I am speaking of some marijuana smokers. Not everyone who smokes marijuana is an "addict" (I will use your word addict and let it pass because physically you cannot become addicted to marijuana, habitual addiction yes, physical addiction no) anymore than the person who attends happy hour for alcohol, being an alcoholic." ArguingWAristotleTiff

The most powerful of addictions are the habitual, the constant need to return until you form a tolerance or a need to continue the cycle. It is the first stage of forming an addiction. The rituals of spending time getting high soon enough loses the control that one has over the drug that they become dependent on it and for those who have pre-existing or a vulnerable to mental health issues, the development of an enduring psychotic illness is of serious concern. Any denial of that and of the existing research that indicates that is disturbing. — TimeLine

You have created your own version of a Cannabis consumer and I apologize if not all of 'us' fit into the mold you have created but stick with it and see where it gets you. I would appreciate it if you could find the time to read this latest study and understand the complexity of Cannabis and the degree of damage, if any and recognize the cases in which Cannabis has proven to be a protector from lung cancer, where even the non smokers of any kind, had an increased rate of lung cancer over the Cannabis smoker.

As far as your "thinking that smoking causes a temporary sense of contentment because they are unhappy or miserable" is true in some cases and maybe even prevalent in your experiences. However, I am drawing off of my own experiences and as a patient advocate, I am in the position to help registered patients find the pain relief they are seeking, I am not in the position to try to talk them out of it. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

While I appreciate that you are drawing off your own experiences, at present the discussion is about what compels a person to take drugs and not about the legality or benefits of cannabis. A person without direction from a medical professional is often compelled to drug-use due to self-esteem issues and a sense of apathy, stress and anxiety, as well as accessibility. This causes greater difficulties for a person with pre-existing mental health issues, and even cannabis - particularly following long-term and frequent use - can be detrimental and lead to the development of serious psychosis and other forms of pathology. Those living with mental health issues including depression and anxiety have a higher risk of forming a dependence on substances that includes alcohol and drugs.

William Styron' book Darkness Visible is an account of the severity of depression and how after forty years of alcohol-dependence that helped alleviate his anxiety throughout that length of time, the moment he stopped drinking alcohol he declined into a severe state of depression. His substance abuse was a means to “calm the anxiety and incipient dread that I had hidden away for so long.” By facing that anxiety, he almost committed suicide and indeed the link between depression and substance abuse is clear, just as much as depression and other mental health ailments are linked with suicide. You may have a personal or direct experience with a few people seeking pain relief and that is fine, but 29.5 million people worldwide are addicted to illicit drugs, 800,000 people commit suicide each year, millions living with the pain of depression, anxiety or disassociation, not to mention the decline in health and wellbeing including the spread of diseases.

It doesn't help that more than 50% of people who begin with marijuana move on to illicit drug use and I am not sure if you have ever seen a teenager addicted to Ice or other opioids, but it is the most horrific thing to see. So when you say:

I apologize if not all of 'us' fit into the mold you have created but stick with it and see where it gets you — ArguingWAristotleTiff

It is not a mould I have set, it is a thing called reality. The problem transcends your backyard.

When you say:

People who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I think it is you creating this "mould". By the way, I have never taken any form of drugs including cannabis and I do not drink alcohol, but I am "content".

While I appreciate that you are drawing off your own experiences, at present the discussion is about what compels a person to take drugs and not about the legality or benefits of cannabis. A person without direction from a medical professional is often compelled to drug-use due to self-esteem issues and a sense of apathy, stress and anxiety, as well as accessibility. This causes greater difficulties for a person with pre-existing mental health issues, and even cannabis - particularly following long-term and frequent use - can be detrimental and lead to the development of serious psychosis and other forms of pathology. Those living with mental health issues including depression and anxiety have a higher risk of forming a dependence on substances that includes alcohol and drugs. — TimeLine

I agree that Cannabis has contraindications when used by someone who has an undiagnosed psychosis among a few other medical conditions/illnesses.

William Styron' book Darkness Visible is an account of the severity of depression and how after forty years of alcohol-dependence that helped alleviate his anxiety throughout that length of time, the moment he stopped drinking alcohol he declined into a severe state of depression. His substance abuse was a means to “calm the anxiety and incipient dread that I had hidden away for so long.” By facing that anxiety, he almost committed suicide and indeed the link between depression and substance abuse is clear, just as much as depression and other mental health ailments are linked with suicide. — TimeLine

It is true that some people fear sobriety more than they do death.

You have a personal or direct experience with a few people seeking pain relief and that is fine, but 29.5 million people worldwide are addicted to illicit drugs, 800,000 people commit suicide each year, millions living with the pain of depression, anxiety or disassociation, not to mention the decline in health and wellbeing including the spread of diseases. — TimeLine

In being a patient advocate I have seen all walks of Cannabis users and as I said before, I have seen Cannabis help people get off of harder drugs such as alcohol and Opioids, so your personal experience is not the same as mine.

29.5 million people worldwide are addicted to illicit drugs but with no list of what drugs they are addicted to, it makes the number less relevant to your using it as support. Once again I will repeat myself that Cannabis is not a physically addictive drug. Please provide a breakdown of that statistic: of what drugs and where in the world the addiction is if you want to cite your assertions.

It doesn't help that more than 50% of people who begin with marijuana move on to illicit drug use and I am not sure if you have ever seen a teenager addicted to Ice or other opioids, but it is the most horrific thing to see. — TimeLine

Ah, the old idea that marijuana is the gateway drug to.....wait...how can marijuana be "illicit" enough to be to be combined in your world wide statistics above but now you are saying that "It doesn't help that more than 50% of people who begin with marijuana move on to illicit drug use" suggesting that marijuana is not an "illicit" drug. Which is it? Do you know how marijuana is seen around the world?

When you ask me if I have ever seen a teenager addicted to Ice which is a form of Methamphetamine or Opioids, all I have to offer you is a gracious smile, as I wonder if you have read and comprehended a single word that I have written,

I apologize if not all of 'us' fit into the mold you have created but stick with it and see where it gets you — ArguingWAristotleTiff
It is not a mould I have set, it is a thing called reality. The problem transcends your backyard. — TimeLine

The "reality" is that Cannabis is not always a "problem". Did you read the study I linked my last post to or were you still responding emotionally?

People who smoke marijuana often become much more content with where they are in life. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I think it is you creating this "mould". By the way, I have never taken any form of drugs including cannabis and I do not drink alcohol, but I am "content". — TimeLine

Alcohol is one of the deadliest drugs on the market so be sure to keep it included in your "any form of drug", it is more comprehensive and accurate that way.

I am genuinely thrilled for you to be able to say you are "content". (L)

By the way, I have never taken any form of drugs including cannabis and I do not drink alcohol, but I am "content". — TimeLine

As this is a philosophy forum, can I suggest that the most fundamental discussion about recreational drugs is not the whys and wherefores of drugs that are currently out there, but the use of drugs in principle.. Could I ask whether you are against recreational drug use in principle?