To the extent that social relations are ties that bind, it is because receiving without giving, whether in an economic or friendship context, is not a relationship at all, but an ossification. — Joshs
I don't see how the repetitious maintaining of whatever systems, objects, processes, needs to happen. Novelty schmoevelty.. it's all the same- MAINTENANCE. — schopenhauer1
but the question being important — schopenhauer1
There is a danger in believing that the profound and anomalous nature of the question in itself entails antinatalism's truth, as though such a question couldn't possibly admit of the answer the vulgar masses would give to it. — Thorongil
So, you need to to give an argument as to why you think it's not right. — Πετροκότσυφας
Life can involve a lot of necessary chores. But that just says something about those particular forms of activity. The fact that "work" and "repetition" can also be highlights of our existence means your basic thesis is flawed. The problem isn't with existence in general, it is with particular situations that we might feasibly improve upon. — apokrisis
I haven't given any robust arguments before. — schopenhauer1
I don't see how the repetitious maintaining of whatever systems, objects, processes, needs to happen. Novelty schmoevelty..
it's all the same- MAINTENANCE. Why provide a person to put forth the energy of maintaining their survival, finding entertainment, etc. — schopenhauer1
It just doesn't seem like a good thing to for someone else. It's not about the outcome in this case, simply the question. I don't care if people literally don't have any more kids as much as asking the question of why having more people should take place in the first place. This is where you fundamentally miss me.
But there doesn't need to be a need to have children for antinatalism to be false, so your question is irrelevant to me and most people here. — Thorongil
Repeating that it is or asking me why it is not, does not help me much to understand what the problem is and if you don't care to explain yourself, then I don't need to try to make any sense of what you're saying and which appears to me as absurd. — Πετροκότσυφας
One lives for the sake of their self understanding. And one of the things one does for the sake of their self-understanding/mattering is work. In this sense even alienated work is extremely meaningful. — bloodninja
That's the conceptual way you look at it now. You're talking adult-learned concepts. But that isn't what life was when you were younger. You know that. — Michael Ossipoff
I won't pretend to like that. But I don't have your attitude about it, because I realize that, for whatever reason, this sequence of involvement started, and, for some other reason, I drew a bad world this time. What can I do? Just make the best of it, while I'm in this one. Rejecting it won't accomplish anything, no matter what my opinion of the people I have to share this world with Just get through it, making the best of it.
That last clause, the emphasis on making the best of it, is the difference between our attitudes. The life-rejection attitude just wouldn't do any good, and would make things worse. — Michael Ossipoff
seems as if most people are hardwired to feel life is good or "worth it" regardless of what their living conditions are like. — Philosophersstoney
Use your imagination. You can contemplate before-birth imaginatively, and death imaginatively. To simply ask why the in between matters as that is going on with you right now. It is deep down, a religious sentiment, or at least an axiological one. — schopenhauer1
"That's the conceptual way you look at it now. You're talking adult-learned concepts. But that isn't what life was when you were younger. You know that." — Michael Ossipoff
Sure it was. It was preparing for maintenance. It was enculturation, cultural preparation.
— schopenhauer1
But isn't this just de facto what we do, because the counterfactual of suicide is repugnant? Just because suicide is usually culturally/biologically not an option for most, doesn't mean that the opposite (having things matter) is good. It is what we do yes, but why is mattering something good in itself other than its the default state of a human mindset? — schopenhauer1
I would put it this way: the good things in life are only valuable to those who want them. Before being born, nobody wants the goods in life, so they are not valuable to them until they are born. So, to create an empty cup where none existed before, just so that it can be filled and emptied repeatedly over the course of some decades before spilling for the last time, seems to me like a pointless endeavor, and since we know the pain that accompanies each instance of emptiness, it's better not to make the cup at all.
So, life's bad because it entails work and work is a burden. Ok. Now you have to show how work is inherently a burden. — Πετροκότσυφας
Yeah, and the rest of humanity does not think that having to work to survive is inherently problematic. So, how is this anything more than just someone's personal dissatisfaction? — Πετροκότσυφας
Since when has "the rest of humanity" been the root of morality? Do I even have to say the fallacy of numbers? — schopenhauer1
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