See above, sucka!

I did not say psychic energy though — Agustino

Here's the quote:

There are a lot of contributing factors for low psychological energy though. Beliefs, attitudes and expectations are part of it. If you have the wrong beliefs, the wrong expectations and the wrong attitudes, you're going to dig yourself in a hole. Studying stoicism is useful in that regard. Mindfulness also helps bring those into awareness and learn to manage the underlying emotions. — Agustino

I just think that there's no point in talking about 'wrong beliefs', 'wrong expectations', and 'wrong attitudes', as if some Ayatullah or priest professing a certain dogma or way of life.

Here's the quote: — Posty McPostface

Yeah, there is no mention of "psychic" energy there. I did say psychological energy, because that's what it is phenomenologically speaking. Do you disagree?

I just think that there's no point in talking about 'wrong beliefs', 'wrong expectations', and 'wrong attitudes', as if some Ayatullah or priest professing a certain dogma or way of life. — Posty McPostface

So you don't agree with the CBT version that wrong beliefs, wrong expectations and wrong attitudes are one of the prime causes of depression?

Yeah, there is no mention of "psychic" energy there. I did say psychological energy, because that's what it is phenomenologically speaking. Do you disagree? — Agustino

Fine, then. Allow me to use that term in a different context. How do you understand a term that cannot be quantified, meaning that which is 'psychological', and at the same time include a term that can mostly be understood when quantifying it, such as 'energy'? They don't seem to go well together.

So you don't agree with the CBT version that wrong beliefs, wrong expectations and wrong attitudes are one of the prime causes of depression? — Agustino

I'm afraid that's the wrong term to use in this case. CBT talks about cognitive distortions, not the right or wrong'ness of a belief.

Fine, then. Allow me to use that term in a different context. How do you understand a term that cannot be quantified, meaning that which is 'psychological', and at the same time include a term that can mostly be understood when quantifying it, such as 'energy'? They don't seem to go well together. — Posty McPostface

Okay I see. Well, I think the term "energy" doesn't only have the meaning we're used to in physics. If you're very tired, you'll say "I don't have enough energy". In that case, you certainly don't mean the useful work that can be quantified, but you're referring to a psychological state. Correct?

I'm afraid that's the wrong term to use in this case. CBT talks about cognitive distortions, not the right or wrong'ness of a belief. — Posty McPostface

How are beliefs and cognitive distortions related?

Okay I see. Well, I think the term "energy" doesn't only have the meaning we're used to in physics. If you're very tired, you'll say "I don't have enough energy". In that case, you certainly don't mean the useful work that can be quantified, but you're referring to a psychological state. Correct? — Agustino

Yeah; but, that's a sort of cognitive distortion if we're going to be strictly logical about this. I mean, how does one know if they have 'enough energy' for some task. And, where does this energy come from?

How are beliefs and cognitive distortions related? — Agustino

Beliefs are subject to being true or not. People with schizophrenia tend to have more cognitive distortions arising in their minds than the rest of the population. But, that's not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that there doesn't seem to be a fundamental difference between beliefs and knowledge as I understand it. So, if one has accurate beliefs about the world then that is knowledge bona fide.

I mean, how does one know if they have 'enough energy' for some task. — Posty McPostface

They feel it.

And, where does this energy come from? — Posty McPostface

As I said when I was asked this before, I don't know.

Beliefs are subject to being true or not. People with schizophrenia tend to have more cognitive distortions arising in their minds than the rest of the population. But, that's not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that there doesn't seem to be a fundamental difference between beliefs and knowledge as I understand it. So, if one has accurate beliefs about the world then that is knowledge bona fide. — Posty McPostface

So are cognitive distortions false beliefs then?

So are cognitive distortions false beliefs then? — Agustino

Good question. What's your take on the matter? I think I might have to polish this up before starting a thread. Still reading the Shestov.

Good question. What's your take on the matter? — Posty McPostface

Personally, I think cognitive distortions are false beliefs - I take them to be presumptions that people act on, which don't reflect reality. For example, if someone sees another laughing, some people will presume they are laughing about them, and start feeling anxious/bad, and change how they act. So that belief will cause one to feel bad. On the other hand, I don't think it's the truth or falsity of the belief that causes one to feel bad, but merely having that belief. If it happened to be a true belief, and they really were laughing at them, then would the person be justified in feeling bad?

Still reading the Shestov. — Posty McPostface

That's just the preface, you can keep reading the rest if you like by clicking the arrows to move to next chapter at the top.

Personally, I think cognitive distortions are false beliefs - I take them to be presumptions that people act on, which don't reflect reality. For example, if someone sees another laughing, some people will presume they are laughing about them, and start feeling anxious/bad, and change how they act. So that belief will cause one to feel bad. On the other hand, I don't think it's the truth or falsity of the belief that causes one to feel bad, but merely having that belief. If it happened to be a true belief, and they really were laughing at them, then would the person be justified in feeling bad? — Agustino

I started a thread listed below. Let me know what you think. It's 3 AM and I should be heading to sleep. Night.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/2697/cognitive-distortions-belief-and-knowledge-#Item_1

goodnight (Y)

How about a reason not to die?

When you wake up, do you decide not to die?

I hope not. But I have met people who do.

i think the trick here is to not take the query of the thread too literally.
How about what makes you life interesting, worth while. What gets you out of bed in the morning.

Sculpting has not always been my main motivation. But it is what gets me out of bed these days.
I it up after looking around for something new to do a year or so after cancer.

https://www.artfinder.com/product/power-of-the-image/?utm_campaign=product-power-of-the-image-share-facebook&preview=1&utm_medium=facebook-share&utm_source=artfinder#/

https://www.facebook.com/SurreySculptureSociety/photos/pcb.843447495832125/843445555832319/?type=3&theater

Here's my Centenary Kirk Douglas.

https://twitter.com/MarkCarterMC/status/857204514658680832/photo/1

Coffee?

Tea.

Mmmm. darjeeling first flush.

To learn the Ukulele? (Y)

I doubt the average person, even the average TPF member, is conscious of what they "live for everyday", since the daily ritual of life doesn't allow for that much reflection. On top of that, when we do reflect on why we live life each day, we tend to come up with a nice ideal: "I live life for the betterment of others", "I live life for the beauty of things", "I live life because it's my imperative to do so", etc., ad naseum. But these aren't real reasons for "living life"; they're justifications for one's existence, and generally not quite truthful. In reality, we generally don't know exactly why we're living life. — Noble Dust

Agreed. Well stated. (Y)

Futile? — Bitter Crank

An object in motion tends to stay in motion.

My mother-in-law, who currently lives with us, has never made an effort to develop her mind and the consequence of that, it appears, is that she's like a lost and helpless child.

A dog will provide you with a reason to get out of bed every morning. It will get off the bed and stand beside you and whimper softly. Then whine louder. Then poke you with its nose. Then poke harder. Then bark once, loudly. Repeat. You WILL get up because its bladder is full and its stomach is empty, an intolerable situation. It will do this every day throughout its long life.

has never made an effort to develop her mind and the consequence of that, it appears, is that she's like a lost and helpless child. — praxis

Sounds like the President of the United States. Wolff of Fire and Fury fame says Donald Trump doesn't read. It isn't clear whether he can read. He doesn't listen to people either. He watches televisions.

when we do reflect on why we live life each day, we tend to come up with a nice ideal: "I live life for the betterment of others", "I live life for the beauty of things", "I live life because it's my imperative to do so", etc., ad naseum. — Noble Dust

Whatever defense we offer for our drab wretched lives is invariably total bullshit, but the cover story is important. It is better if it sounds good. "I live to bring beauty and joy into the lives of others" is nauseating, but it sounds better than "If you can't take a big healthy crap every morning, you might as well be dead."

Or... maybe not.

What I take to be your self-portrait is my favorite. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Whatever defense we offer for our drab wretched lives is invariably total bullshit, but the cover story is important. It is better if it sounds good. "I live to bring beauty and joy into the lives of others" is nauseating, but it sounds better than "If you can't take a big healthy crap every morning, you might as well be dead."

Or... maybe not. — Bitter Crank

Is it always total bullshit? What about defenses like sunk cost, concern for how a few particular human beings will fare without one, the hope that one has not yet peaked yet, one's 'programing', etc. What comes to my mind is a spectrum. We have dark comedians on one end and politicians on the other. Have you watched Another Period? That show is savage and as funny as Arrested Development. What does our enjoyment of such shows indicate? It seems at least part of us knows that we are full of shit, and comedy is enjoyable as us being less full of shit by temporarily admitting how full of shit we are. (I wonder if 'full of shit' has the same resonance outside the states.)

But not the second paragraph? :P