I agree that he used offensive language. However, what he said wasn't racist. — Thorongil

It may be expressing an attitude that is generally racist. That's a disturbing thought for someone in his position, affecting policies, national attitudes, etc. I believe that's why so many people are perturbed about it, except for Richard Spencer and the like.

Yeah, but that's just speculation. And I disagree that the comment expresses any such attitude.

To the extent that he associates race with riches, there's a racist element to his thought, but primarily he's thoughtless and speaks from his gut fear of / contempt for the dispossessed. — Baden

It’s also been tracked back to his phobia of contamination.

Donald Trump, who has on many occasions called the tradition of shaking hands “barbaric,” confessed in his 1997 book The Art of the Comeback: “One of the curses of American society is the simple act of shaking hands, and the more successful and famous one becomes the worse this terrible custom seems to get. I happen to be a clean hands freak. I feel much better after I thoroughly wash my hands, which I do as much as possible.”

But Trump’s germophobia goes beyond an unwillingness to shake hands—an aversion he has had to forgo during his run for the presidency. Trump is also reported to have a preference for drinking with straws and eating pizza with a fork, a distaste for pressing elevator buttons and a revulsion to fans and the public getting too close to him, such as for autographs.

In an op-ed for the U.K. newspaper The Independent, Gurnek Bains, author of Cultural DNA: The Psychology of Globalization and founder of a corporate psychology consultancy, suggests that Trump’s fear of communicable diseases is the root of his anti-immigrant political stances.

His obsession with cleanliness is why he prefers mass-produced or processed food. His preferences are not complicated: KFC. McDonald’s. The occasional taco bowl.

“I like See’s Candies.” “I like hamburgers.” “I’m an ice cream fan from way back.”

“I don’t like rich sauces or fine wines,” Trump wrote in his book Surviving at the Top. “I like to eat steak rather than pheasant under glass.” So long as the steak is well-done—so well-done, according to his longtime butler, “it would rock on the plate.”

His simplistic palate is a function of his desire for cleanliness. “One bad hamburger, you can destroy McDonald’s,” he explained to CNN’s Anderson Cooper earlier this year. “I’m a very clean person. I like cleanliness, and I think you’re better off going there than maybe someplace that you have no idea where the food’s coming from. It’s a certain standard.”

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/the-7-oddest-things-donald-trump-thinks-214354

It's not like the comment exists in isolation. He's made other well-known comments that suggest a racist attitude.

I think these 8 pages reflect for starters different thresholds for what constitutes racism. To me it's quite clear in the context of everything else Trump has said and done that he's a xenophobe/racist/bigot. Remember his comments about an Indiana born judge being partial due to him being Mexican (e.g. ancestry leads to an inherent conflict of interest)? "Text-book racism", according to Paul Ryan, who I don't accord particular authority but just cite because he's as Republican as they get. Then there is his role in the birther movement. The weird absence of Jews in his Holocaus remembrance statement. He's funded ads that associate Native Americans with drug use and crime. The Pocahontas thing during the ceremony for the native american war veterans received under a picture of Andrew Jackson. Not renouncing David Duke. Defending white-supremacists in Charlotsville. Complaining about NFL players that kneel during the anthem. Pardoning Arpaio.

That's on top of my head and all recent. I'm sure if you start digging into his history you'll find more. It's fine if some people will still deny it, that just means we don't see eye-to-eye on this ethical issue.

Also, my original comment (now on page 3 or 4) was done in the shoutbox and was intended to give a few US citizens a moment of reflection to see how it feels to have your country called a shit hole. In reality I think the US has one of the shittiest implementations of a democratic system making it particularly suspectible to influence from special interests, a total disregard of political losers (even if in all likelihood your two neighbours voted Democrats) bordering on party dictatorship. Whatever political disagreements you might have, you're still having to live together and work together. The fact political leadership is incapable of bridging differences is not a very good example for the rest of society.

One must be 35 years of age, a resident within the United States for 14 years, and a natural born citizen. — Thorongil

I think what you mean by "qualified" is not what others mean when they say that Trump isn't qualified. Trump is certainly eligible, given what you say above, but I think when others talk about being qualified they're referring to the level of knowledge, work ethic, diplomacy, etc.

To me it's quite clear in the context of everything else Trump has said and done that he's a xenophobe/racist/bigot. — Benkei

Do you think the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations should ask for their Ellis Island Medal back? It was for services to black inner-city youth after all.



Or do you think he is a racist because he has reduced black unemployment to record lows, and already restored black median income to levels before Obama reduced it by $1000pa?

Oh, and that's Rosa Parks in the picture, by the way.

I think these 8 pages reflect for starters different thresholds for what constitutes racism. To me it's quite clear in the context of everything else Trump has said and done that he's a xenophobe/racist/bigot. Remember his comments about an Indiana born judge being partial due to him being Mexican (e.g. ancestry leads to an inherent conflict of interest)? — Benkei

A bit off topic, but I vaguely recall an argument which explained Trump's position concerning the judge in question as being consistent with the guiding assumptions underlying the sort of identity politics which is espoused by those same Democrats who got so riled up here.

Democrats assume that people will largely behave in predictable patterns which align with the interests of their respective demographic groups (the black vote, the Latino vote, etc.). As the party of diversity they want more individuals form marginalized groups in the courts and elsewhere because they feel that a variety of perspectives is a good and necessary thing for our increasingly diverse country. So far so good.

Now, when Trump questioned the ability of that judge of Mexican ancestry and Democratic political leanings to handle his case impartially, Democrats quickly changed their tune and feigned shock that he could have the audacity to suggest that this man's racial (or other) background just might have an influence--perhaps even a significant influence--on his perspective and in turn his judicial decisions.

Anyhow, if I understood it correctly, the idea was that Trump (or whomever was advising him) was taking a fundamental tenet of identity politics and using it to expose hypocrisy. This isn't meant to support Trump on this or other things, and I likely botched the argument, but I did find it to be an interesting take on the issue regarding the (in)consistent application of principles.

Now, when Trump questioned the ability of that judge of Mexican ancestry and Democratic political leanings to handle his case impartially, Democrats quickly changed their tune and feigned shock that he could have the audacity to suggest that this man's racial (or other) background just might have an influence on his judicial decisions. — Erik

I don't know the context of this, but presumably the Democrats were outraged that Trump would suggest that someone of Mexican descent wouldn't be a capable judge, able to fairly judge the rule of law, because of his Mexican descent. That's quite a bit different from saying that people of Mexican descent likely have different personal opinions and values.

A more likely example of hypocrisy would be to address the Democrats who accuse Christian judges as being at risk of intentionally misrepresenting the law or the constitution to rule in favour of pro-life or against same-sex marriage.

Yeah I'll try to track down the details again so I don't misspeak or misrepresent. I do recall being shocked that Trump would highlight the judge's Mexican heritage as a possible reason to dismiss him.

Come to think of it, I also remember Trump responding to an interviewer who asked him why the judge's Mexican background should disqualify him from judging Trump's case. His response: I'm building a wall.

LOL can't believe I forgot about that but this guy is indeed over the top.

Did you hear about him suggesting that the "pretty Korean lady" should be the diplomat to North Korea?

I did not, but that seems completely in line with his character as he's shown himself thus far and so not at all surprising.

Do you think the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations should ask for their Ellis Island Medal back? It was for services to black inner-city youth after all. — tom

NECO, started by Fugazy in outraged response to the liberty medals awarded to mostly non-white naturalised Americans (no Italians, Poles or Irish!). Fugazy, that guy who was Trump's real estate broker in 1986. And that medal that predominantly goes to white americans of European descent. I'm sorry. What was your point again?

Or do you think he is a racist because he has reduced black unemployment to record lows, and already restored black median income to levels before Obama reduced it by $1000pa? — tom

Sigh. Not only are those things unrelated but one man can't "fix" the economy to begin with.

Oh, and that's Rosa Parks in the picture, by the way. — tom

Oh, on a side note too Hitler saved his former Jewish commander Ernest Hess. Was he a humanitarian too?

I don't think anything is surprising anymore. Take the recent accusations of hush money paid to porn stars. It wouldn't shock me if it were true. But imagine if such accusations had come out about Obama or Hillary?

Hillary would go up in my estimation actually.

Oh yeah Trump supporters would go ballistic.

Didn't people go ballistic at Obama for wearing a tan suit and eating Dijon mustard and saluting with a coffee cup?

I don't remember that episode but once again it sounds entirely plausible given the hatred that many conservatives felt and continue to feel for Obama. And I do think much of it was/is racially-motivated.

But I also grew up in an area with a large percentage of Trump supporters and I can tell you that not all of them are the caricatured racists and xenophobes they're often portrayed as. In fact, I'm sure many won't believe this but I know many Mexican-American Trump supporters, and most of them are proud of their heritage. Now of course there's likely a large percentage of his base who do harbor deep-seated prejudices--and I've not met a single black Trump supporter yet--but it's a bit more complex than some people think and that others would like you to believe.

But I also grew up in an area with a large percentage of Trump supporters and I can tell you that not all of them are the caricatured racists and xenophobes they're often portrayed as. In fact, I'm sure many won't believe this but I know many Mexican-American Trump supporters, and most of them are proud of their heritage. Now of course there's likely a large percentage of his base who do harbor deep-seated prejudices--and I've not met a single black Trump supporter yet--but it's a bit more complex than some people think and that others would like you to believe. — Erik

I definitely agree, which is why establishing whether Trump is racist or not isn't going to solve anything. First of all, not everyone agrees but even then; what are you going to do about it?

I think there were a myriad of reasons for people to vote for Trump. As long as it wasn't Hillary played a big role. Beliefs in economic models. Gay rights, legalisation of drugs and other social progressive issues people were against. Fear of the economy and the Other. I suspect a lot of people voted for him despite expecting him to be a problematic candidate and some voted for him despite their belief/suspicion he was a racist. It can't be but a minority who voted for him that did so specifically for his bigotry and mysogyny. I'd personally just suspect more people to be up in arms about it but that's just projection from the political system I'm used to in the Netherlands.

But imagine if such accusations had come out about Obama or Hillary? — Michael

Only Fox would report about it.

Only Fox would report about it. — Hanover

Probably because the accusations would have been invented by Hannity.

Those are additional subjective preferences in addition to the real qualifications.

I don't agree.

Those are additional subjective preferences in addition to the real qualifications. — Thorongil

I think it's more than just subjective preferences. Simply being eligible and elected aren't sufficient to be considered good for the job, and it's Trump not being good for the job that's being claimed.

You might argue that they're misusing the term "qualified", but that's a trivial semantic issue that misses the main point.

He's a dimwitted, scatter-brained, ignorant, venal, vulgar, petty, mean, prick of a man. Such people will say such things. We were stupid enough to elect him, knowing what he is. We get what we deserve.

It's a representative democracy, so it's futile to complain. I voted for Obama but gradually came to view him as a terrible president, and I got over it.

Oh, and that's Rosa Parks in the picture, by the way. — tom

Oh, and that's Anita Bryant in the picture, by the way. She is a former Miss America and was the wholesome spokesperson for the orange juice industry until she became an outspoken opponent of homosexuality and gay rights.

In my estimation, there have been plenty of presidents who have, on paper, been considered good for the job and check all the right experience/knowledge boxes, and turned out to be terrible presidents.

she became an outspoken opponent to homosexuality and gay rights — T Clark

You speak as though this is a bad thing.