Where does he write that he doesn't agree with that?

Where does he write that he doesn't agree with that? — Buxtebuddha

Where do I write that I believe the doctors are idiots for making the dichotomy?

MU doesn't seem to be aware that anxiety and panic attacks are classified as different medical conditions, which is what I was saying before and what he was misinterpreting.

Of course one can be anxious without having a panic attack, but a panic attack is a condition of anxiety. — Metaphysician Undercover

MU doesn't seem to be aware that anxiety and panic attacks are classified as different medical conditions — Agustino

?

Merely because a panic attack is its own medical condition doesn't mean it's not caused by anxiety.

Merely because a panic attack is its own medical condition doesn't mean it's not caused by anxiety. — Buxtebuddha

No, anxiety isn't necessarily the cause of panic attacks, it can also be a symptom if the panic attack occurs seemingly randomly, in a person who does not suffer from an anxiety condition.

And I never said that anxiety and panic attacks aren't related, so I don't see why you're chewing so much on this. You should read what I wrote in greater detail before commenting.

No, anxiety isn't necessarily the cause of panic attacks, it can also be a symptom if the panic attack occurs seemingly randomly, in a person who does not suffer from an anxiety condition. — Agustino

One can suffer from anxiety, such as a panic attack, without being subject to having an anxiety disorder. It's the same as someone who can be depressed and not suffer from capital d Depression.

It's the same as someone who can be depressed and not suffer from capital d Depression. — Buxtebuddha

They would suffer from situational depression then.

One can suffer from anxiety, such as a panic attack, without being subject to having an anxiety disorder. — Buxtebuddha

Those are different conditions. One is either diagnosed with anxiety, or with panic attacks, or maybe both.

Now let's take this unreasonable anxiety and see if we can expose it. It cannot be created by thoughts in the brain, because there are no beliefs about any impending events, good or bad. If an impending event was apprehended by the brain, then a judgement could be made concerning this event. But no such impending event is apprehended, and that's why the anxiety remains unreasonable. This is how I would classify unreasonable anxiety, anxiety which is not supported by the brain's judgement of something impending. It cannot be the brain which is creating this anxiety because the anxiety is completely unreasonable to the brain, and the brain's response to that anxiety is one of confusion. — Metaphysician Undercover

The brain is sometimes referred to as a 'prediction machine'. On a subconscious level it's continually predicting what will happen next, based on the situation and memory, in a kind of a Pavlovian conditioned response. A stressor, or something that causes anxiety, doesn't need to be an explicit memory. That's why in many situations anxiety may have no apparent cause and seem unreasonable and be maladaptive. So this is brain activity, conscious awareness of this activity is after the fact, though only a fraction of a second behind.

Why are you telling me? It's MU who doesn't understand that. I perfectly understand that panic attacks and anxiety are related, but they are different conditions, and I agree with the distinction drawn by doctors. — Agustino

They are not different "conditions". They stem from exactly the same source, only one more extreme than the other. Usually occurring when one does not change oneself appropriately, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, or physically - there has to be a real change. Drugs are suppressive and will ultimately make things much worse. This is not theoretical, it is demonstrated from real life experiences.

They are not different "conditions". They stem from exactly the same source, only one more extreme than the other. Usually occurring when one does not change oneself appropriately, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, or physically - there has to be a real change. Drugs are suppressive and will ultimately make things much worse. This is not theoretical, it is demonstrated from real life experiences. — Rich

Yeah, I don't know why you're telling me this. In medicine, they are classified and diagnosed as different conditions. That they are related, I never denied.

As for drugs not being effective long-term, I obviously agree. I very much consider the drugs to be merely a crutch that must be let go of at some point, as the patient grows stronger.

Anxiety is a different medical condition than panic attacks. Why is that? Are the doctors idiots? — Agustino

Sorry Agustino, but I will not engage in this childish bickering.

I didn't feel effects to be honest apart from not being able to sleep, and fast heart rate - but it wasn't troubling since it also gave me a lot of energy. — Agustino

Do you know what anxiety is? I mean, know it by having experienced it, not by having read a definition. What makes you think that anxiety is "troubling"? As I explained in my post to TimeLine, my anxiety is not at all troubling, so long as it can be associated within some identifiable future event. It is only if it is allowed to exist as an irrational sort of anxiety, that it might become troubling.

Well, if your "monkey mind" to use a Buddhist expression, forces you to stay active, cause otherwise you experience anxiety, then I think there is something wrong with it. One should be able to be inactive, without experiencing anxiety - that is called relaxation, and it's important. — Agustino

If a Buddhist deals with the threat of irrational anxiety through inactivity, and I deal with the threat of irrational anxiety through activity, then unless I am engaged in bad activities, by what principle would you claim that the Buddhist technique is better than mine?

Only if you equate "not being anxious" with "being healthy". — Agustino

I truly belief that irrational anxiety is a form of unhealthiness. So if I can avoid irrational anxiety by being active, then I can truthfully state that I am being active for the sake of health.

Namely, if it is possible to be inactive at times without being anxious, that is what "being healthy" would qualify as, not distracting yourself (being active) so that you avoid experiencing anxiety. — Agustino

If you, Buddhists, or whoever, find that you can avoid anxiety altogether, by being inactive, and you believe that this is a healthy state, then you might maintain a condition of inactivity for the sake of health.

I however, find that anxiety of the normal variety, that which is not irrational anxiety, is completely healthy, so I have no desire to kill my ambition altogether just because it is associated with some degree of anxiety. In other words, I find most anxiety to be beneifical, and good, because it is a "looking forward" to something, a positive outlook, therefore I encourage this anxiety. Anxiety can be a very encouraging experience, and this is very uplifting, joyous, pleasant, and good. What needs to be avoided is the "let-down", which is often associated with a higher level of anxiety. Since anxiety is such a joyous, uplifting, and encouraging experience, it seems very rational to increase it as much as possible so long as this may be accomplished while still avoiding the associated let-down.

So through my actions, I'm not disclosing my belief? You can't infer, from the way I act, what I believe about the location of the keys? — Agustino

No, your example clearly indicates that you have acted in a deceptive manner by telling me something you know to be false. Why would I believe that any of your actions are anything other than contrived deception?

Right. So does one who experiences an inferiority complex not have the belief that they fail to measure up to whatever standard is under question? Or at the very least the belief that they MAY very likely fail to measure up to it? — Agustino

As the Wiki definition states, the person with an inferiority complex experiences doubt and uncertainty. This is a condition of not knowing what to belief. You construe this as a person who believes oneself to have a certain condition. Your construction is contradictory to the condition described by the definition.

Do you know what anxiety is? I mean, know it by having experienced it, not by having read a definition. What makes you think that anxiety is "troubling"? — Metaphysician Undercover

Yeah, I have suffered from and been diagnosed with anxiety at one point in my life. Both hypochondria and generalised anxiety disorder. Have you? Because it seems to me from your descriptions that you have an entirely different understanding from anxiety than I do. It's true that we can sometimes call the feeling one has before having to go on stage for a musical performance as "anxiety", and it involves a fluttery feeling in the chest and stomach, and heightened focus. But that's not what I mean by anxiety when I talk about anxiety the medical condition.

The American Psychological Association defines anxiety as:

Anxiety is an emotion characterized by feelings of tension, worried thoughts and physical changes like increased blood pressure.

People with anxiety disorders usually have recurring intrusive thoughts or concerns. They may avoid certain situations out of worry. They may also have physical symptoms such as sweating, trembling, dizziness or a rapid heartbeat.

I agree with their definition. That's what I mean by anxiety. It absolutely is troubling. So have you experienced that sort of anxiety?

If a Buddhist deals with the threat of irrational anxiety through inactivity, and I deal with the threat of irrational anxiety through activity, then unless I am engaged in bad activities, by what principle would you claim that the Buddhist technique is better than mine? — Metaphysician Undercover

Well, are you happy about always having to be active in order to avoid anxiety? Many people who experience this aren't happy about it. It's not optimal since it doesn't permit adequate rest and relaxation, nor is it rational to be active just to avoid anxiety - that's just allowing yourself to be controlled by it. Though I'm not sure what to say now that it seems to me you have an entirely different understanding of anxiety than I do.

If you, Buddhists, or whoever, find that you can avoid anxiety altogether, by being inactive, and you believe that this is a healthy state, then you might maintain a condition of inactivity for the sake of health. — Metaphysician Undercover

Not for the sake of health. And the point isn't that anxiety can be avoided by doing this. On the contrary - the person who practices meditation can avoid being troubled by anxiety (cause you can't eliminate feelings, just be detached from them) when they are active and when they are inactive. This is clearly superior to merely being unaffected by anxiety while being active, since such people are unaffected by it through both inactivity and activity.

I however, find that anxiety of the normal variety, that which is not irrational anxiety, is completely healthy, so I have no desire to kill my ambition altogether just because it is associated with some degree of anxiety. — Metaphysician Undercover

I will wait until you clarify what you mean by "anxiety of the normal variety"?

Anxiety can be a very encouraging experience, and this is very uplifting, joyous, pleasant, and good. What needs to be avoided is the "let-down", which is often associated with a higher level of anxiety. Since anxiety is such a joyous, uplifting, and encouraging experience, it seems very rational to increase it as much as possible so long as this may be accomplished while still avoiding the associated let-down. — Metaphysician Undercover

Oh dear!! :-O :-O :-O I would never describe anxiety as a joyous, uplifiting and encouraging experience, so I take that you're joking?

Why would I believe that any of your actions are anything other than contrived deception? — Metaphysician Undercover

If my actions are also deceptive, then what is the truth and how can you find it?

As the Wiki definition states, the person with an inferiority complex experiences doubt and uncertainty. This is a condition of not knowing what to belief. You construe this as a person who believes oneself to have a certain condition. Your construction is contradictory to the condition described by the definition. — Metaphysician Undercover

Doubt is grounded in belief (cf. Wittgenstein's On Certainty).

People with anxiety disorders usually have recurring intrusive thoughts or concerns. They may avoid certain situations out of worry.

Depending on what you mean by anxiety, it may be possible that you are avoiding the situation of being inactive "out of worry" as the quote says.

I agree that there is much brain activity associated with emotions. But emotions are feelings, and feelings involve many aspects of the nervous system as well as the associated organs. So I think that you hold an overly simplistic opinion to say that emotions are generated by the brain. — Metaphysician Undercover

I think your idea that you can treat the brain as separate is simplistic.
But worst than that you seem to be suggesting that you can do without the brain is some way.
Anyone who has lost an arm only to find that it still itches, and feels pain knows only too well what a unique and all encompassing role it has.

I agree with their definition. That's what I mean by anxiety. It absolutely is troubling. So have you experienced that sort of anxiety? — Agustino

OK, I thought we were discussing anxiety as anxiety, not a defined medical disorder entitled "anxiety". Yes I've experienced anxiety which was troubling, most of us probably have, but as I said, I've never been diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder. So even though I've experienced troubling anxiety, I've probably not experienced "anxiety" according to your definition.. And, as I've explained to you, I've managed to maintain my anxiety at a non troubling level. I've learned to respect it, and I've actually come to enjoy it for it's ability to uplift me.

If you want to restrict this discussion of anxiety to your definition of "anxiety", then you'd better count me out of that discussion.

Well, are you happy about always having to be active in order to avoid anxiety? Many people who experience this aren't happy about it. It's not optimal since it doesn't permit adequate rest and relaxation, nor is it rational to be active just to avoid anxiety - that's just allowing yourself to be controlled by it. Though I'm not sure what to say now that it seems to me you have an entirely different understanding of anxiety than I do. — Agustino

I think your wrong here. Maintaining a reasonable amount of activity tires one, and helps one to rest and relax, as well as sleep better. Without an appropriate amount of activity, your efforts to rest and relax may be futile because you have no exertion to rest from. Then your effort to rest and relax will be your only form of exertion. And that's not a good situation because all you are doing is making things difficult for yourself. Have you ever had difficulty getting to sleep, and found that the harder you try to get to sleep, the more difficult it is to get to sleep? Your arguments on this subject are completely illogical.

Not for the sake of health. And the point isn't that anxiety can be avoided by doing this. On the contrary - the person who practices meditation can avoid being troubled by anxiety (cause you can't eliminate feelings, just be detached from them) when they are active and when they are inactive. This is clearly superior to merely being unaffected by anxiety while being active, since such people are unaffected by it through both inactivity and activity. — Agustino

As I said, being active allows me to avoid being troubled by anxiety. So, if as you say, meditation allows one to avoid being troubled by anxiety, I don't see the basis for your claim that meditation is a better approach. As I've explained, I get enjoyment and pleasure from my anxiety, and being active. So not only do I avoid being troubled by anxiety, I also get benefits from it.

Doubt is grounded in belief (cf. Wittgenstein's On Certainty). — Agustino

Since I've just demonstrated that your claims here are contradictory, your appeal to authority is of the fallacious type. You need to address my demonstration that what you have said is contradictory. I've argued elsewhere that it's very clear Wittgenstein is wrong on this point, due to contradictions such as yours, which arise.

Depending on what you mean by anxiety, it may be possible that you are avoiding the situation of being inactive "out of worry" as the quote says. — Agustino

No, I don't maintain activity out of worry of being inactive, I truly enjoy it and I find that I get much benefit from it. Sorry Doctor, but I think you're reading too much into this.

I think your idea that you can treat the brain as separate is simplistic. — charleton

I'm not treating the brain as separate. It is those who say that the brain is the cause of anxiety who are treating the brain as separate.

Full-blown panic attack is marked by very high blood pressure (although that is normal - there is nothing wrong with it, unless you're in panic-attack mode 24/7 - it also occurs during strenuous aerobic exercise). — Agustino

Panic attacks are an example of how those temporary spikes in blood pressure can impact the overall health of your heart but it needs to be persistent and regular. I had several of these the first few months after the car accident and it was terrible and terrifying in addition to other symptoms. The biggest problem for me - and I suspect many others - is this alienation from any self control and awareness and that makes it tremendously difficult to know what to do both you and for others around you. I did not take any medication and in a way I kind of appreciate your understanding of this 'fight' because you really need that to overcome it.

Sleep well dear one and enjoy the sweetest of dreams, knowing that I will stand vigil until the first rays of sun beg you to rise again. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I am fully at peace, healthy and content now as the accident was three years ago, but it took a very long time to overcome because I had a number of other things that I needed to face and overcome along with it. Which I have. So thanks you lovely and sweet thing, but the worst time in my life only made me stronger. And I sleep like a log.



Thanks MU - I will respond to you this evening when I get home as I am only on my lunch break at the moment.

I am fully at peace, healthy and content now as the accident was three years ago, but it took a very long time to overcome because I had a number of other things that I needed to face and overcome along with it. Which I have. So thanks you lovely and sweet thing, but the worst time in my life only made me stronger. And I sleep like a log. — TimeLine

I know you are stronger now but you can tuck this away for a day when we are not as strong or brave.

I have been an anxious person all my life, for as long as I can remember. This is not to say that I have been diagnosed with any anxiety disorder, but that I have been consciously aware of my anxiety for a long time, such that I could look back at my young childhood in a way that I could see how anxiety influenced my psychological response to many different events. — Metaphysician Undercover

I think it is more fear and this fear is divided into two; fear of the known - something physical - and fear of the unknown, something we cannot consciously ascertain and so we experience an emptiness that we cannot control. I am attempting to interpret your suggestion using Heidegger's angst, which is to become aware of ourselves and in doing so we become aware of our separateness, of being independent, alienated and such individuality is frightening because we are compelled to identify with the external world using our own perceptions. That would mean that everything that we once were, the perceptions, the ideas, the opinions, are not concrete because they are not actually our own, which means that our identity is not our own and we would need to start from a clean slate, start creating our own language. It is first-person experience and such intentionality enables our mental acts to be directed outwardly to the external world (rather than inwardly by the external world through others).

This is initiated by this relationship with the future and the future is death; you have free-will, existence precedes essence, purpose, and one is thus enveloped by an existential crises. We can save ourselves by conforming to patterns of social behaviour, by forming a symbiosis to a partner or our mother or friends and allow them to think on our behalf (by doing what they want) or we can have the courage to learn to articulate and develop our own language authentically, by understand Sein. Anxiety is that point between one becoming aware or conscious of their separateness and being able to articulate our own language and this point between or 'limbo' is nothingness where one has not yet reached that level of consciousness. They are aware that something is really wrong with their perceptions or identification to the external world but cannot yet think for themselves.

Transcending to that next level of consciousness is where most people fail because the angst itself, the anxiety - whilst subjective - is nevertheless painful because the mind is using the body to express this fear. It is evolutionary in that when we feel fear - say we encounter a deadly animal - our body reacts with the same surge, but that is a physical response to a physical experience. The mind, however, reacts the same way to a non-physical fear. In addition to this, our cognitive processing from an evolutionary perspective always attempts to alleviate pain and is drawn to pleasure and so one is drawn to give up, to submit to the masses or conform or refuse to think for themselves, because it takes away that anxiety and therefore is pleasurable. This is why people stop questioning and conform to the masses and choose to lose their self-hood.

To distinguish between what is real and what is not real takes courage because the anxiety is a type of dread where one realises that they are drawing away from reality and so their significance becomes unheimlich and our mind is the instrument that unlocks this capacity where we completely transform our thoughts from being a subject to our environment to being empowered to use free will.

So, I think anxiety is caused by fear but I agree with you that this is due to a consciousness of 'looking forward' and that anticipatory reaction. It is particularly potent existentially when we look forward enough to become aware that we are going to die, ultimately raising the most important question relating to 'significance' or our very significance existentially.

The biggest problem for me - and I suspect many others - is this alienation from any self control and awareness and that makes it tremendously difficult to know what to do both you and for others around you. — TimeLine

My secret, as Krishnamurti said, is that "I don't mind what happens" >:O

ultimately raising the most important question relating to 'significance' or our very significance existentially. — TimeLine

This is where introspection of one's own spirituality path enters.

I'm not treating the brain as separate. It is those who say that the brain is the cause of anxiety who are treating the brain as separate. — Metaphysician Undercover

But you ought to understand that all experience is received by the brain. This has to include anxiety.

So, I think anxiety is caused by fear but I agree with you that this is due to a consciousness of 'looking forward' and that anticipatory reaction. It is particularly potent existentially when we look forward enough to become aware that we are going to die, ultimately raising the most important question relating to 'significance' or our very significance existentially. — TimeLine

If you agree with me, that anxiety is concerned with "looking forward", then you should also agree with my designation that anxiety is not always bad. After all, "looking forward to" generally has the connotations of something good. If anxiety is not necessarily caused by fear, but could be caused by other cases of looking forward, then anxiety may in some cases be good. Even fear in some instances is good. Perhaps we can take Plato's model, and class anxiety as a passion. In Plato's description, the passions in themselves, are neither good nor bad. If they are aligned with reason then they are good, but if the person's disposition is corrupted and they no longer align with reason, then they are bad.

I think it is more fear and this fear is divided into two; fear of the known - something physical - and fear of the unknown, something we cannot consciously ascertain and so we experience an emptiness that we cannot control. — TimeLine

Let's say that fear is directed toward something perceived as bad, so that anxiety due to fear is not a case of looking forward to something, not a case of being anxious about something good which is impending (in the sense of "I can't wait..."), but a case of being anxious about something bad impending.

You divide anxiety due to fear into two classes, fear of the known, and fear of the unknown. Let's look at fear of the known. If the impending bad thing which is feared, and causing anxiety, is known, then we proceed toward determining ways of avoiding, or mitigating the bad thing. These things which we determine as ways to avoid the bad thing, are "goods". Under the Platonic-Aristotelian ethical tradition, the desired end is the good for which any action is carried out. So the actions determined as required for avoiding or mitigating the bad thing, are necessary for obtaining that good. In this way we use reason to transform anxiety which is directed toward an impending bad thing, into anxiety toward particular goods. That is fighting the bad thing.

This leaves us with fear of the unknown, which is probably where we will find truly bad anxiety. The "unknown" gives us no specific future event which the anxiety may be directed toward. The anxiety cannot be aligned with any principles of reason and it would seem like it can only be associated with a corrupted disposition. This is the emptiness which cannot be controlled.

So I am rereading your post, and trying to see if there are any hints as to exactly what "fear of the unknown" is. I described this anxiety as irrational, and bad, but some other intuition tells me that it's completely natural and reasonable to be afraid of the unknown. I tell myself it is completely unreasonable to be afraid of the unknown, but at the same time I know my intuition, and it is extremely difficult to approach the unknown without being afraid. There is something important about the solitude which you describe, because approaching the unknown is not frightening if I am not alone.

Death is not entirely unknown either, there is much we know about death. To begin with, we know that others will continue to live after we die, so those others whom we commune with, will continue after we die. This brings me to what you call losing one's selfhood, conforming to the masses. Isn't this necessary, in order to avoid the anxiety involved with death? If one lived life with little communion with others, then as death approached wouldn't anxiety build? These are difficult subjects because so much concerns the unknown.

The mind, however, reacts the same way to a non-physical fear. In addition to this, our cognitive processing from an evolutionary perspective always attempts to alleviate pain and is drawn to pleasure and so one is drawn to give up, to submit to the masses or conform or refuse to think for themselves, because it takes away that anxiety and therefore is pleasurable. This is why people stop questioning and conform to the masses and choose to lose their self-hood. — TimeLine

So I really wonder about this point. Thinking is our approach to the unknown. In order for an individual to think for oneself, and be refusing to conform, this person must always place oneself in a state of anxiety, confronting the unknown. Thinking is produced by approaching the unknown. But this type of anxiety, confronting the unknown is what I described as bad anxiety, above. Clearly, confronting the unknown, and thinking for oneself cannot be completely bad. There's an element missing here though, and that is fear. Approaching the unknown without fear is different from approaching the unknown with fear. So it's not the approach to the unknown, nor necessarily, the anxiety which goes with it, that is bad here, it is the fear itself.

Is fear a form of anxiety, or is it something distinct? Suppose someone is so overwhelmed by fear, that this person could not think straight. Things like this happen. I assume that what causes this fear is the apprehension of danger. Is this a real danger though? If not, then is it real fear? If not, is it real anxiety? All this is an hallucination. Can anxiety be hallucinatory? If so, what would you call it?

I did not take any medication and in a way I kind of appreciate your understanding of this 'fight' because you really need that to overcome it. — TimeLine

I admire you for this, not taking medication. That is a strong will and a tough fight. An event like that will change your life, and this cannot be avoided. The easier route is the medication, but far too often the medication becomes lifelong. To be on medication for the rest of your life means that the event has changed your life for the worse. But if you can fight back without the medication, in time you will overcome, learn from the experience, and perhaps become a better person from it.

A stressor, or something that causes anxiety, doesn't need to be an explicit memory. That's why in many situations anxiety may have no apparent cause and seem unreasonable and be maladaptive. So this is brain activity, conscious awareness of this activity is after the fact, though only a fraction of a second behind. — praxis

I appreciate what you are saying, but what is the "stressor"? It appears to me, like all you are saying is that there must be a cause of anxiety (stressor), but since that stressor can't be identified, let's just assume that the brain is the cause anxiety.

But you ought to understand that all experience is received by the brain. This has to include anxiety. — charleton

We were looking for the cause of anxiety. That experience is "received" by the brain does not mean that it is caused by the brain.

But you ought to understand that all experience is received by the brain. This has to include anxiety.
— charleton

We were looking for the cause of anxiety. That experience is "received" by the brain does not mean that it is caused by the brain. — Metaphysician Undercover

The brain is the source of all experience. Although some hormones are generated in other parts of the body the brain is where anxiety happens.
You can even experience an arm and a leg without an arm and a leg, but you cannot experience anything without a brain.

If you agree with me, that anxiety is concerned with "looking forward", then you should also agree with my designation that anxiety is not always bad. After all, "looking forward to" generally has the connotations of something good. If anxiety is not necessarily caused by fear, but could be caused by other cases of looking forward, then anxiety may in some cases be good. Even fear in some instances is good. Perhaps we can take Plato's model, and class anxiety as a passion. — Metaphysician Undercover

I totally agree that it is not always bad, I would even go so far as to say that since anxiety is using both our emotions and physical responses to articulate a subjective concern that we are not aware of, that it is in fact good that we have these responses despite the negative sensations, because we are trying to speak to ourselves without words or a language. There is that saying most men lead lives of quiet desperation and die with their song still inside them, and people who feel anxiety don't like something but are not conscious of what it is that they do not like. It is like the emotions and body is trying to tell them.

In Plato's description, the passions in themselves, are neither good nor bad. If they are aligned with reason then they are good, but if the person's disposition is corrupted and they no longer align with reason, then they are bad. — Metaphysician Undercover

(Y) Spot on.

I described this anxiety as irrational, and bad, but some other intuition tells me that it's completely natural and reasonable to be afraid of the unknown. I tell myself it is completely unreasonable to be afraid of the unknown, but at the same time I know my intuition, and it is extremely difficult to approach the unknown without being afraid. There is something important about the solitude which you describe, because approaching the unknown is not frightening if I am not alone. — Metaphysician Undercover

From an evolutionary angle, this schism in fear can be biological - a natural mechanism of our brains in order to protect and preserve ourselves, but also the psychological, which is socially constructed where we are taught to believe in one thing, but we reason rather quietly that something is wrong with this belief. We don't think when we speak, language is so much a part of us that it naturally flows, and the things that we are taught when younger form the same bond with our perceptions; children can hate really intensely someone from another race because they are taught to believe that. That is an extreme case, but the point is that our perceptions could be flawed because of what we have been taught or our environment; we need to articulate it, bring to consciousness using reason but most never reach that point because we instinctually want to alleviate the anxiety, it is a natural reaction to want it to end and so we go on avoiding this all-important conversation we need to have with ourselves.

The problem with anxiety and it's cousin depression is that they are highly individual because it is dependent on a number of factors, predominantly your experiences and why articulating it or reasoning why it has manifested is the only way to really understand and overcome it. This is why communication is the key, whether in writing, to a friend or psychologist, through art. I found that talking about it - despite it being broken and problematic - allowed me to eventually piece the puzzles.

Approaching the unknown without fear is different from approaching the unknown with fear. So it's not the approach to the unknown, nor necessarily, the anxiety which goes with it, that is bad here, it is the fear itself. — Metaphysician Undercover

I have a saying to explain this. There was once a young man who went hiking and he fell off the side of the cliff. As he was dropping, his jacket got caught on a rock and he managed to grab hold before his jacket tore completely. As he was hanging onto his life, he could not see below him because of the mist, and suddenly he heard a voice telling him that if he let's go, he will live. But, because of fear he refused to let go and instead he died that way, only if he did let go, he would have dropped only a couple of meters to safety. People hold onto this fear and so afraid to live that they live and ultimately die having experienced nothing.

I admire you for this, not taking medication. That is a strong will and a tough fight. An event like that will change your life, and this cannot be avoided. The easier route is the medication, but far too often the medication becomes lifelong. To be on medication for the rest of your life means that the event has changed your life for the worse. But if you can fight back without the medication, in time you will overcome, learn from the experience, and perhaps become a better person from it. — Metaphysician Undercover

Thanks. It really took a lot of out me, but I have indeed become a much stronger, more affectionate and loving and indeed far more happier person then I ever was before, even before the experience. This peace is only recent, so I can imagine how the continuity of this improvement will grow over the coming years. When you get that clean slate and start writing your own language that you use to interpret the world and not the one given to you, nothing is greater.

The brain is the source of all experience. Although some hormones are generated in other parts of the body the brain is where anxiety happens.
You can even experience an arm and a leg without an arm and a leg, but you cannot experience anything without a brain. — charleton

I think that this is a matter of philosophical debate. It all depends on how you define experience. If you define experience such that it requires conscious noticing, and remembering of something, then it requires a brain. If you define experience simply as being affected by something, then it does not require a brain. To me, "experience" might mean a memory of being affected, but this only defers the problem over to what is meant by "memory". There are many living things without a brain, plants, which seem to have some sort of memory of how they have been affected.

Regardless to that, this is not what is at issue here. Anxiety is the thing which is being experienced. Your argument is based on the assumption that the thing being experienced, (in this case anxiety), could not exist without the thing which experiences it. And that's a false premise. I agree that the experience itself, requires a thing which experiences, but what we are looking for is the nature of the thing which is experienced, anxiety, not the experience, which is the noticing or remembering of anxiety. There is no reason why we should restrict ourselves to the thing which experiences, and the experience, when we are looking for that which is experienced.

I totally agree that it is not always bad, I would even go so far as to say that since anxiety is using both our emotions and physical responses to articulate a subjective concern that we are not aware of, that it is in fact good that we have these responses despite the negative sensations, because we are trying to speak to ourselves without words or a language. There is that saying most men lead lives of quiet desperation and die with their song still inside them, and people who feel anxiety don't like something but are not conscious of what it is that they do not like. It is like the emotions and body is trying to tell them. — TimeLine

Right, I like this way of looking at anxiety, your body is telling you something but you do not know what it is. I like this better than saying that a specific part of the body, the brain is telling you something, because the worst cases of anxiety seem to be the ones when the brain isn't in control of the anxiety. Perhaps what the body is saying, is really simple sometimes. When I'm sitting, sometimes anxiety will give me the urge to get up and pace the room. Maybe my body is just telling me to get active. Other times, it's not so simple, like if I am doing something and I feel like it should be getting done faster. Sometimes if there's more things in my mind which need to be done, than I can logically order, the anxiety builds. Perhaps my body is saying that my brain is losing control. Because if the brain isn't exercising proper control, then what is controlling the body. Anxiety may be a state of the body when it is not properly controlled by the brain.

That is an extreme case, but the point is that our perceptions could be flawed because of what we have been taught or our environment; we need to articulate it, bring to consciousness using reason but most never reach that point because we instinctually want to alleviate the anxiety, it is a natural reaction to want it to end and so we go on avoiding this all-important conversation we need to have with ourselves.

The problem with anxiety and it's cousin depression is that they are highly individual because it is dependent on a number of factors, predominantly your experiences and why articulating it or reasoning why it has manifested is the only way to really understand and overcome it. This is why communication is the key, whether in writing, to a friend or psychologist, through art. I found that talking about it - despite it being broken and problematic - allowed me to eventually piece the puzzles. — TimeLine

This is the problem I have had with "good anxiety", which I pointed to earlier. It is always directed to a future event, something looked forward to. There is a strong desire to end the anxiety because the end is the good which is sought. But the good is quick, gone in a flash, and there is a sudden hole which is left. This, I would call melancholy. In some cases I might avoid the melancholy by focusing on the anxiety itself, making the anxiety the good rather than the real good which is the end to the anxiety. So I've learned to enjoy the anxiety, and the "leading up to" period of the anticipated event But this is somewhat delusional, elevating the anxiety to an unreasonably high esteem, giving it a false position, as if the means to the end were the end itself. But I find that there is a balance to enjoying the anxiety, and enjoying the thing looked forward to, which makes the end less of a "flash", lessening the melancholy.

People hold onto this fear and so afraid to live that they live and ultimately die having experienced nothing. — TimeLine

I don't think we've properly addressed "fear" yet, and its relation to anxiety. There are different approaches, you suggested the division between fear of the known and fear of the unknown, but I find this difficult because the so-called known fear may often be mistaken such as misapprehension, and hallucination. And anxiety in respect to fear seems to more associated with an uncertainty as to whether the feared thing is real or not. I would like to class all fear as fear of the unknown , such that when the future thing is known, despite it being bad, we will not "fear" it. "Fear" would then be defined as an irrational view toward the future, necessarily involving the unknown. If the future were known, no matter how bad it is, we would not fear it. But fear is related to that part of the future which is unknown. It's like if we could assume determinism, thus know our fate, we'd also know that it is impossible to change that fate, so there'd be no worry or anxiety.

This peace is only recent, so I can imagine how the continuity of this improvement will grow over the coming years. When you get that clean slate and start writing your own language that you use to interpret the world and not the one given to you, nothing is greater. — TimeLine

Here's something to consider. As you described the situation, your anxiety preceded your accident, so it was not caused by the accident, if anything the anxiety contributed to the occurrence. It may be the case, that you are like I am, just a naturally anxious person, and your level of anxiety is prone to rising. Your experiences in the recovery period are not so much related to your anxious personality, but experiences which any person might incur, though the anxiety would contribute to the appropriate degree. But your anxious personality might be related to the incident occurring in the first place. And if this is the case you ought to determine how anxiety contributes to what you do in a negative way.

Sometimes I am worried about some particular bad thing which may happen if I am not careful. There is anxiety. I will look for anything I can possibly do to prevent this bad thing from happening, taking as many steps as possible related to anything I think might lead to the bad thing happening. This is not always good, because I am messing around with the things which might lead to the bad thing happening. When I am not extremely careful and methodical in choosing what to mess around with, and how I proceed in such messing around, I have actually caused the bad thing to happen by making a mistake. I am a little bit prone to causing the thing which I am afraid of occurring, to actually occur, because I am so afraid of it occurring. It's odd how trying too hard to prevent a particular occurrence, can actually cause it.

I think it is more fear and this fear is divided into two; fear of the known - something physical - and fear of the unknown, something we cannot consciously ascertain and so we experience an emptiness that we cannot control. I am attempting to interpret your suggestion using Heidegger's angst, which is to become aware of ourselves and in doing so we become aware of our separateness, of being independent, alienated and such individuality is frightening because we are compelled to identify with the external world using our own perceptions. That would mean that everything that we once were, the perceptions, the ideas, the opinions, are not concrete because they are not actually our own, which means that our identity is not our own and we would need to start from a clean slate, start creating our own language. It is first-person experience and such intentionality enables our mental acts to be directed outwardly to the external world (rather than inwardly by the external world through others).

Anxiety has a transgressive character in Heidegger - transporting a person into a state in which normal categories of thought and the normative structures enmeshing them loosen and fray as a person ties themselves in knots over their capacity for decision. It's a useful segue for him in Being and Time between the inhibiting realm of everydayness and normal functioning to action that concerns the person and their own status as a living human; made finite by an engagement with death; which is always apparently a person's own death. The predilections specific to anxiety are glossed over and, rather quickly, amalgamated in and subordinated to the proper metaphysical study of finitude and its underlying temporal structures in human life.

The phenomenological segue from the everyday and the inauthentic to the specific and authentic only has a superficial resemblance to actual anxious thought and effective strategies to anxiety's resolution. To be sure, anxious thought is typically scattered and fleeting. It fears failure and disappointment as a moth flees a bulb. It obsesses over death through fascination with disempowered and afflicted fantasies. The maxim to realise your finitude and use it to shape your decisions falls on all too willing ears.

An anxious person realises their finitude, they are consumed by it.
An anxious person uses it to shape their decisions, they are paralysed by it.

If someone's anxiety has the character that reading over-long pastiches to 'carpe diem' can dismiss it and help them orient their lives - they are not an anxious person, or maybe they were but are now nearly-not. The intervention that changes an anxious person's life for the better is neither an engagement with finitude nor an engagement with their ownmost desires, it is an engagement with their anxiety itself in the contexts, boring day to day contexts, that it arises. An anxious person faces anxiety in a manner that flees from their ownmost being incessantly, and it is only through grappling with the every day and finding place in it that they begin, anew, to hone their ownmost being; to gain the capacity to flourish once more.

To recover and mitigate its effects is to accommodate yourself to your environment, to challenge those parts of it which are disabling, and to promote those bits which allow you to flourish. Far from 'fleeing into the world', as Heidegger would have it, this is the pattern of recovery.

tl;dr: too much authenticity, not enough eudaimonia

Heide who? >:O

I like him otherwise, mostly!

It all depends on how you define experience. If you define experience such that it requires conscious noticing, and remembering of something, then it requires a brain. — Metaphysician Undercover

Duh! You mean like anxiety???
FFS

The predilections specific to anxiety are glossed over and, rather quickly, amalgamated in and subordinated to the proper metaphysical study of finitude and its underlying temporal structures in human life. — fdrake

What is questionable here - for instance through counselling, or writing, or art - is when one learns how to articulate or accurately communicate the reasons for the anxiety, the feelings all but disappear? No one, not even Heidegger, can explain these predilections for you because how you identify the external world epistemically or ontologically is determined by your experience and therefore only you are capable of identifying the impact of these experiences. This relies on the state of your mind, your capacity to think rationally and with common sense. So, Heidegger' attempt here is about those specific knots that prevent a person from articulating or communicating the real reasons, and the primary source of this is fear that prevents us from taking advantage of the cognitive tools as instrument to allow us to distinguish between what is real and what is not real (so something that is not real are those who are compelled to new ageism to overcome anxiety as an example); the inauthentic person who conforms to the morality as dictated by an inauthentic world to escape the angst of freedom.

As we stop questioning and conform to the masses, we lose our selfhood and this one such way of overcoming the anxiety. The other is that symbiotic attachment that we rather loosely call 'love' or that attachment that we have to our partner or our mother, this yearning to attach ourselves to an object to avoid thinking for ourselves. We are striving for harmony but for the wrong reasons and the primary impetus for this is the brain, which seeks pleasure and avoids pain. It is painful to recognise the futility of our existence because we become conscious of death or the existentiality, but if we dedicate ourselves to actually learning or questioning through temporal reflection, we begin to under the 'supreme possibility' of this freedom, of our capacity to produce and so we begin to form our own perceptions of the external world through this awareness of ourselves and our separateness.

Death is about recognising our individuality or separateness but death is not the violence of the experience but rather the fear itself that encourages us to conform to the masses. So, the point is to overcome this authentically and therefore our motivations vis-a-vis moral consciousness will enable us to correctly apply ourselves in love. Anxiety is just a feeling or a sensation without a language - subconscious - that is attempting to tell us something we disagree with or that something is wrong but that we cannot articulate because there is no language, no words to describe this. This is why we become dis-empowered or disillusioned and resort to a number of self-defence mechanisms - including things like disassociation - to try and manage the experience and this is why they either become consumed or paralysed by the experience.

It is about ascertaining the correct - or authentic - way in order to reach this harmony and in my opinion the only correct way is this self-reflective communication, by piecing the puzzles by talking about it, writing it, drawing it and not escaping it by other means as already mentioned. This is the intervention that enables one to engage in existence and ascertain the anxiety, give it a language. So, it is about engaging with genuine truths, confronting aspects to our existence that we may avoid - unhappy relationship, trauma from a past-experience etc - and overcoming them. It is to let-go of our developmental attachment to have reality given or dictated to us when young and to form our own reality.

What such engagement means is self-respect, we begin to respect ourselves, we begin to love ourselves, that our opinions matter, and we start to actually think rather than follow. This takes practice and in so doing we begin to authentically love others and it is all others, a capacity to give love. Love is rational, a practice and not some spontaneous feeling and it is also not about loving one object - like certain people - but about how we give it. The state of our mind and our rational faculty. When one does not transcend this need for others to think on their behalf and remove the toxicity of this fear, their love is superficial at best.

Thus authenticity precedes eudaimonia.