My take on Bergson was that he was completely discounted because his ‘Elan vital’ was interpreted as another version of Descartes’ res cogitans - a ghost in a machine. And it’s not hard to see there’s no such thing. It’s bit of a wilful misrepresentation but it’s enough to have buried him. — Wayfarer
Any teleological approach to evolution ought be discarded as a mater of course. The point of evolution is its lack of purpose. — Banno
We know gravities affect clocks. Not at all surprising. We know nothing about human experience and the affect of gravity on it, other than what we feel on Earth. In space, we know humans react in different ways, but none have report time slowing down. — Rich
And there is evidence of this? — Banno
The point of evolution is its lack of purpose. — Banno
Haldane [in the 1930s] can be found remarking, ‘Teleology is like a mistress to a biologist: he cannot live without her but he’s unwilling to be seen with her in public.’ Today the mistress has become a lawfully wedded wife. Biologists no longer feel obligated to apologize for their use of teleological language; they flaunt it. The only concession which they make to its disreputable past is to rename it ‘teleonomy’.
We know gravities affect clocks. Not at all surprising. We know nothing about human experience and the affect of gravity on it, other than what we feel on Earth. In space, we know humans react in different ways, but none have report time slowing down.
You keep mixing up clocks with humans, which is comparable to mixing up computers with humans. In any case, my prediction would be if humans are accelerated near the speed of light they would die. I wonder if Einstein would debate me on this? — Rich
The point of evolution is its lack of purpose. — Banno
That time slows down as speed increases has been empirically shown to be true. — Hanover
A human would not sense his own time slowing, — Hanover
but a human could observe another person's time slowing relative to his own. — Hanover
The Elan vital does more to name the problem than to account for — StreetlightX
Clocks are not time. — Rich
Of course v they do. They do it all the time and they vocalize these feelings — Rich
Never heard this happen anywhere by anyone. This is comparable to flying dogs. I'll be v this under the c heading off fabricated evidence? — Rich
So science denies that people can feel time slow, despite the enormous evidence to the contrary, but feel it is perfectly sensible that one human can observe another person's time slowing. — Rich
But I love Bergson. And of course you haven't 'read such revision of Bergson as this'. You're entirely uneducated. But enough with you. — StreetlightX
This isn't theoretical. It's empirical. Read the cited material. — Hanover
Do you not see that there is purpose in each act of every living thing? If every living thing acts with purpose, and evolution is a result of those acts, how can you conclude that there is a lack of purpose in evolution? — Metaphysician Undercover
Read the cited material. That's precisely what they've done. That no one has experienced another's experience is a given. Having a first person experience of a second person is incoherent. — Hanover
I wish he had better advocates than the likes of Rich — StreetlightX
I wondered as much. — Banno
Any teleological approach to evolution ought be discarded as a mater of course. The point of evolution is its lack of purpose. — Banno
We use the language of intent to describe the actions of the sparrow, but does the sparrow have intent? — Banno
Here the male must leave the flock, if he has belonged to one, and establish himself in a territory which may at the time be incapable of sustaining him alone, but must later in the season supply a satisfactory food-supply for himself, his mate and family, and for as many birds of other species as overlap his sphere of influence. He must then sing loudly and incessantly for several months, since, however soon he secures a mate, trespassers must be warned off the territory, or, if they ignore his warning, driven out. His mate must help with the defence of the territory when she is needed; pairing must be accomplished; a suitable site must be found for the nest; materials must be collected and put together securely enough to hold five bulky young birds; eggs must be laid in the nest and continuously brooded for a fortnight till they hatch, often in very adverse weather; the young are at first so delicate that they have to be brooded and encouraged to sleep a great part of the time, yet they must have their own weight of food in a day, and in proportion as the need of brooding them decreases their appetites grow, until in the end the parents are feeding four or five helpless birds equal to themselves in size and appetite but incapable of digesting nearly such a wide diet. Enemies must be watched for and the nest defended and kept clean. When the young scatter, often before they can fly properly, they need even greater vigilance, but within a few days of the fledging of the first brood a second nest will (in many cases) be ready and the process in full swing over again. All this has to be done in face of great practical difficulties by two creatures, with little strength and not much intelligence, both of whom may have been hatched only the season before.
Here, too, organized behavior reflects the interests and needs, the perception, and the future requirements, of agents carrying out highly effective, end-directed activity. To be sure, the bird is not consciously reflecting upon its situation. But, just as with [a] pedestrian, we make sense of what happens by interpreting it as a series of reasonable responses to the bird’s ever-changing life context — all in the light of its own ends. While we cannot view the bird as inferring, deducing, and deciding, it is nevertheless recognizing and responding to elements of significance in its environment. There is a continual and skillful adjustment to a perceived surround that is never twice the same surround.
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