Well, he's from Queens and his views and policies are pretty typically liberal, in the American sense.

Long time donor to Democrats and liberals, scrapping TPP, trade wars and tariffs, massive infrastructure plan, paid family leave, isolationist foreign policy tendencies, is pro choice ("changed his mind" later), has no problem with gay marriage (" "), in favor of legalizing drugs (" "), doesn't give a fig about religion (" "), etc.

Yeah, he contradicts himself all the time, but he strikes me as a typical liberal of the kind you would expect to find from someone with his background. I don't fall for the ever leftward moving Overton window that paints him as some kind of proto-fascist. One thing he is not is a conservative, and to the extent that he shares some views with some people thought of as right wing, still, that doesn't not make him a liberal either.

To be a liberal, or a conservative - or anything worthy of name - is to care about something. Over the years, per his public comments, as reported, and certainly from his actions, he, Trump, cares about nothing except himself. That's not liberal or conservative or anything else. In a different person it might be pragmatism, but that preserves the caring. Trump doesn't care; in that he is close to pure evil!

Huh, his lawyer's been raided.

All this shows us is that Trump has been a chameleon over the course of his lengthy business career, blending in with the prevailing political atmosphere when it suits him (although I don't see how scrapping TPP or engaging in trade wars with China is a de facto liberal position). He was emphatically for the Iraq War initially, then became a half-assed vocal critic. Now as president he named Iraq war hawk and real-life Muppet, John Bolton, as the National Security Adviser. Donald Trump, the President, who hired Bannon as his political strategist and had Roger Stone as a consultant, is absolutely not a New York liberal.

Trump's personal attorney Cohen, office, hotel room and his home were raided by the FBI today. The US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York executed a series of search warrants and seized the privileged communications.

Trump called it an " attack on our country"

A judge authorized the Federal Warrants, which means that even if Trump axes Muller, the NY State Federal District Attorney can keep the action rolling in courts at Trump. Axing Muller will infuriate a lot of people.

Michael Cohen is also the Deputy National Finance Chairperson of the RNC.

I have to say, I am finding the 'Mueller investigation' pretty perplexing. Nobody is told exactly what is being sought, but it seems to have a pretty wide remit. So, shenanigans involving a porn actress? Let's investigate that! There's a constant drip of innuendo and things that just might happen, or have happened or will happen.

Make no mistake - I think there was definite Russian meddling in the US Presidential election. It might have even been decisive. But Trump himself has never shown any comprehension of what the issue was - it was never that he, personally, colluded with Putin to rig the result. It's only tangentially about what Trump did or knew - which means, as it's not about him, he's got no real interest in it.

So the upshot is, this morning's raid just plays right into Trump's narrative of a deep-state conspiracy designed solely to undermine his legitimacy. I don't believe that it is, but it's not at all difficult to spin it that way.

A judge authorized the Federal Warrants, which means that even if Trump axes Muller, the NY State Federal District Attorney can keep the action rolling in courts at Trump. — Cavacava

You mean at Cohen.

I have to say, I am finding the 'Mueller investigation' pretty perplexing. Nobody is told exactly what is being sought, but it seems to have a pretty wide remit. So, shenanigans involving a porn actress? Let's investigate that! There's a constant drip of innuendo and things that just might happen, or have happened or will happen. — Wayfarer

It has nothing to do with Trump sleeping with a porn star. It's to do with Cohen potentially breaking campaign finance laws by paying her hush money. Also bank fraud and wire fraud.

And, yes, the remit is pretty wide: "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation [into Russia collusion]". In this case, however, Mueller and Rosenstein simply referred the matter to New York. They're obviously not just going to ignore evidence of a crime because it doesn't have anything to do with Russia. That would be ridiculous.

Picking a fight with the FBI. So dumb.

[Delete] @Baden

He’s doing more than ‘picking a fight’ - he’s trying to actively undermine both Justice Department and the FBI. Often seems to have friendlier things to say about dictators and tyrants than his own federal officials. And I don’t for one minute want to convey anything like sympathy to Trump. It’s just that the Mueller remit does seem like a fishing expedition at times.

:lol:



And Fox News are cheering him on. Asking with a straight face "Is it time to fire Mueller?". So, you have a MSM outlet now essential advocating a President act like a tin-pot dictator. Sad times for democracy.

Fox News is truly diabolical. On behalf of all Australians, I apologise for there being a Rupert Murdoch.

[Delete] @Baden

And I don’t for one minute want to convey anything like sympathy to Trump. — Wayfarer

You've established your credentials as someone who loathes Trump, and understandably so I might add. That being said, the idea that Trump is an unethical self-serving jackass does not preclude the possibility that certain elements within the U.S. government may be corrupt. Ruling out the latter possibility a priori just because you can't stand anything about Trump is the wrong move imo. This has been my basic position all along.

I think this new tentative position of yours, if I'm understanding it correctly, speaks to your non-partisan integrity.

Never mind. Provides an opportunity for re-telling my favourite story about a bit of graffiti sprayed on an Auckland wall:

‘Australia Sucks’

To which someone later added:

‘New Zealand NIL’ :grin:

I think this new tentative position of yours, if I'm understanding it correctly, speaks to your non-partisan integrity. — Erik

Why thank you. ‘Impartiality’, let’s say.

And also the nagging feeling that the Yanks ought not to need anything particular to sack Trump beyond his obvious incompetence and venality.

[Delete] @Baden

At least we do well at Rugby, — René Descartes

probably that graffiti was Wallaby wishful thinking :shade:

a bit of graffiti sprayed on an Auckland wall: — Wayfarer

Wall tampering - typical!

:cool:

Trump's personal attorney Cohen, office, hotel room and his home were raided by the FBI today. The US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York executed a series of search warrants and seized the privileged communications. — Cavacava

There is something very unnerving about the lawyer/client privilege being infringed on

The warrants were handled by the office of US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman, a recent Trump appointee. Berman is also the former law partner of Rudolph Giuliani, one of Trump's early supporters and advisers. The judge thought that sufficient probable cause exists or he would not have issued the warrants.

"The FBI and Justice Department use lawyers and investigators walled off from the primary investigation to sift through the documents to prepare a "privilege log" for later submission to the court. At least in theory these "taint" teams remove any legitimately privileged items from examination by the primary investigators putting the case together. Or at least that is how it is supposed to work, though some of us who are criminal defense lawyers may be skeptical." CNN

If attorney/client conspired to break the law, attorney client privilege does not hold. Also if the FBI and Justice Department don't handle the information they seized impartially they are subject to sanction and the case being dismissed.

If attorney/client conspired to break the law, attorney client privilege does not hold. Also if the FBI and Justice Department don't handle the information they seized impartially they are subject to sanction and the case being dismissed. — Cavacava

But the information is not within the scope of the investigation if it happened while Trump was a private citizen.

I don't think it's unfair to say that Mueller and team know quite a bit more than we, the public.

But he's innocent and never did anything wrong, ever, either before or after he became president; and they have found and will find nothing as he keeps telling us. Therefore, everything is hunky dory. All this investigation will do is prove how pure and misunderstood a soul he is and we'll all end up eating humble pie and go back to loving him. What could be better than that?

But the information is not within the scope of the investigation if it happened while Trump was a private citizen.

Muller's office apparently came up with information during its investigation that as you state does not relate to his investigation but since he is required by law to present any suspected crime to the appropriate authorities, his office recommended it the FBI's NY office. My understanding is that the NY Office is investigating Cohen for bank, and election fraud.

There is something very unnerving about the lawyer/client privilege being infringed on — ArguingWAristotleTiff

You ought to recognize, that nothing, unless it's left unspoken, is truly private. And maybe the neuroscientists can extract it right out of your mind. Also be aware of anything marked "pentothal".

The warrants were handled by the office of US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman, a recent Trump appointee. — Cavacava

The raids were likely well expected by Trump and Cohen. I wonder how well they hid everything.

What I find particularly interesting about the whole thing is that the level of moral outrage of those on his side is more or less directly proportional to knowledge of his guilt. Those who most know that he is guilty of something are those most morally indignant at the 'unfair' treatment he's receiving. It's kind of a wave of ironic hypocrisy with Trump at its epicentre moving outwards through his lawyers and spokespeople through Fox News and Breitbart and his wider pool of support. And the funny thing is I think it is "real" moral outrage in a sense—it's not just a calculated act—with the knowledge that there is nothing really to be morally outraged at (as he clearly has dirty hands) operating at a kind of virtual background level that sustains the whole charade.

The people I know who voted for him aren't particularly outraged. They thought he might be an antidote to what they saw as an already corrupt and too smoothly-functioning establishment. Now they just wish somebody would sew his mouth shut.

Biden 2020.