Character entails nothing. Character is for gossip magazines, TV reality shows, and children's fairytales. Good Guys and Bad Guys. Only the politically infantilized talk about character as if it meant anything at all. — StreetlightX

We can call it personality, or integrity, or anything else if you're interested in semantics. What matter is electing people that you can actually trust to act in the common interest, rather than their own or that of their party.

What matter is electing people that you can actually trust to act in the common interest, rather than their own or that of their party. — Echarmion

What is this, a hallmark card?

Too aggressive. You're headed back toward the stone age.

What is this, a hallmark card? — StreetlightX

I suppose you're an adherent of direct democracy then?

Actually, the Democrats and liberals should adjust their policy positions and messaging so that's more welcoming towards Republicans and conservatives, because Leftists arent real people and their views don't matter.

Look, the focus on personality, character, integrity, behaviour, whatever, is completely trivial. It destroys any attempt to understand why the world is as it is in terms of interests, relations of power, history, economics, and so on - points at which one might actually intervene to make a difference i.e. engage in politics and attempt to excercise agency. The focus on charcater or whatever psychological bullshit is effectively an argument for political impotence and mystification - it says: don't look at the world and try to understand and alter it, just put it down to some ineffable internal psychology.

And once this happens all anyone can talk about is useless shit like affections and feelings: embarrasment, laughter, shame, whatever. The only thing worse than a Trump supporter is a Trump opponent whose political literacy extends as far as 'this is not normal'. They ought to be first against the wall when the shit hits the fan. At least Trump supporters have a keener instinct for things that actually matter.

I think it's pretty abhorrent to compare Trump with Hitler, really. — Wayfarer

So I conclude that the "shoot em in the legs" comment didn't bother you, nor what happened to all the detained children left in their own soiled clothes for days on end. Sounds like a concentration camp to me.

Look, the focus on personality, character, integrity, behaviour, whatever, is completely trivial. It destroys any attempt to understand why the world is as it is in terms of interests, relations of power, history, economics, and so on - points at which one might actually intervene to make a difference i.e. engage in politics and attempt to excercise agency. — StreetlightX

This is 1000% correct. But imagine having a leader who you know is a fundamentally good person. I had that: Barack Obama. There's nothing like it.

It's not whether you win or lose. It's how you play the game.

I've found it terrifying how much trump reminds me of Hitler. And he's whipping his supporters up into an irrational frenzy of hatred and anger. And yes, as you noted, we're seeing Nazi-like tactics used on those he considers "inferior races." Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth: he's a cold-blooded, reptilian-brained psychopath.

What was it about Trump that reminds you of Hitler? Was it the holocaust or hatred of Jews?

This is 1000% correct. But imagine having a leader who you know is a fundamentally good person. I had that: Barack Obama. There's nothing like it.

It's not whether you win or lose. It's how you play the game.

The problem is any old snake can act like a good person. Meanwhile, while you were enraptured by his game play, he waged a war on whistleblowers and the press.

at least Trump supporters have a keener instinct for things that actually matter. — StreetlightX

Would you care to substantiate this claim in some way?

I've very little of anything good to say about Obama, the dronestrike, deportation commander-in-chief of the biggest surveillance state in the world. He was just a peice of shit with a nice smile and an elegant voice. If anything Trump's incompetency at least exposes the American state for what it is.

What was it about Trump that reminds you of Hitler? — NOS4A2

1. Totalitarian personality, tremendous anger manangement problem.
2. He believes everything that comes out of his own mouth: malignant narcissism and dissociation from reality.
3. He believes he has the right to control the whole world.
4. He's a total racist who'd like to shoot border crossers and feed them to crocodiles.

I've very little of anything good to say about Obama, the dronestrike, deportation commander-in-chief of the biggest surveillance state in the world. He was just a peice of shit with a nice smile and an elegant voice. If anything Trump's incompetency at least exposes the American state for what it is. — StreetlightX

You're entitled to your opinion.

The problem is any old snake can act like a good person. Meanwhile, while you were enraptured by his game play, he waged a war on whistleblowers and the press. — NOS4A2

Worse. He was responsible for Syria's implosion and he knows it. He was still a good man.

You forgot to add:

5. Seemingly supports far-rightwing Fascism by promoting pollical violence.

I was the same way about Obama. But, for me at least, It seems easier to excuse someone’s errors if you believe them to be a good person. That’s dangerous, especially in a leader. I’ve come around to Arthur Miller’s idea that a leader must be willing to kill for us if necessary. A person like that seems to me to exclude good men.

Did you know that if you poop on your chopsticks before you dig into to the cat food, it sort hides the rotten taste?

1. Totalitarian personality, tremendous anger manangement problem.
2. He believes everything that comes out of his own mouth: malignant narcissism and dissociation from reality.
3. He believes he has the right to control the whole world.
4. He's a total racist who'd like to shoot border crossers and feed them to crocodiles.

In other words, Trump’s psychology reminds you of Hitler’s psychology. That’s poor comparison in my book, especially since one was guilty of genocide, and the other guilty of nothing of the sort.

Did you know that if you poop on your chopsticks before you dig into to the cat food, it sort hides the rotten taste?

Can’t say I ever tried.

In other words, Trump’s psychology reminds you of Hitler’s psychology. — NOS4A2

It's fundamentally the same psychology. I know lots of folks are quite happy having a sociopath with no self-control in the white house.

5. Seemingly supports far-rightwing Fascism by promoting pollical violence. — 3017amen

Darn!!! I did forget that!! I was trying not to use the word fascist so as not to rile the fascist-leaning members of this forum. :-}

LOL, yes I wanted to ask his thoughts and comparison relative to endorsement of pollical violence...

Eeeeewwwww. You're welcome to it. You have a stronger stomach than I do.

It's fundamentally the same psychology. I know lots of folks are quite happy having a sociopath with no self-control in the white house.

No, it’s not. There is no comparison any more than a vegetarian is like Hitler because he didn’t eat meat.

Be my guest.

The only thing worse than a Trump supporter is a Trump opponent whose political literacy extends as far as 'this is not normal'. They ought to be first against the wall when the shit hits the fan. At least Trump supporters have a keener instinct for things that actually matter. — StreetlightX

The more I look at this the more nonsensical it appears. You say that the shit's gonna hit the fan, presumably because of the Trump administration, yet you claim that Trump supporters have keener instincts for things that actually matter and that these keen instincts are better than someone lacking political literacy. What the hell??

Character is for gossip magazines, TV reality shows, and children's fairytales. — StreetlightX

You are confusing character and personality. One can present a persona but one's character is, as the etymology of the word makes clear something very different. It is what marks a person for what they are.

Only the politically infantilized talk about character as if it meant anything at all. — StreetlightX

It was of fundamental importance for Aristotle's Politics and Nicomachean Ethics.

Good Guys and Bad Guys. — StreetlightX

Machiavelli teaches political leaders:

... to be able not to be good and to use or not use that knowledge according to necessity

Machiavelli's subtly is easily and often overlooked. It is only political leaders who are good who needs to be taught not to be good. Political leaders who are bad must learn how not to use that knowledge, that is, how not to be bad. According to necessity means what is necessary to be and remain a prince. This is not what is it is commonly assumed to be. It is not advocating self-interest, for he takes that as a given. It is about satisfying the people's own self-interests, the desire for freedom, peace, and prosperity.
In other words, Machiavelli teaches how not to be good in order to do good.

In his Discourse on Livy Machiavelli says:

The criterion of character afforded by a man's manners and conversation is a safer guide than the presumption of inherited excellence, but is far inferior to that afforded by his actions ...

... nothing helps so much to make a prince esteemed as to give signal proofs of his worth, whether by words or by deeds which tend to promote the public good, and show him to be so magnanimous, generous, and just, that he may well pass into a proverb among his subjects.

One would do well to learn that the discussion of political character of leaders is not to be found in gossip magazines, TV reality shows, and children's fairytales, but in reading the classics of political philosophy.

And yet, you're fine with Trump doing exactly that with regard to Biden.

Regarding Trump's offenses, we also have the whistleblower report, which provides the damning context. This is certainly not proof, but it is more than adequate cause to investigate further.

Neither the “whistleblower” or IG Atkinson saw the transcript of the call. It’s all gossip. It’s inadequate. — NOS4A2

You sidestepped my points: 1) It is inadequate as a sole basis to impeach, but -like any credible whistleblower report- it warrants investigating further. 2) it ia hypocrytical to suggest Biden should be investigated based solely on circumstances, while claiming investigating a whistleblower report is a "witch hunt."

So I conclude that the "shoot em in the legs" comment didn't bother you, — uncanni

Everything about Trump bothers me, he’s an aberration and a thoroughly dreadful person. But Hitler, he ain’t.