Come January 20th we can close this thread, yeah? — Maw

But then where will we discuss the trials?

The idea that people should expect of their head of state what they do of their spiritual leaders is a silly one. The same goes for the feeble daddy-figure sentiment about how a leader must be some infallible “unifier” and a “healer”. This sort of statism leads to the United States being one of the biggest public relations firm in the world.

The government should defend the liberty to practice whatever religion or creed one wants to, so long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others. It’s management and employees need not express any religious or pious overtures, for Christians or otherwise. Any paid actor can virtue signal.

I was hoping Trump’s presidency would expel this disease, like chemotherapy would a cancer—the reactionary response to him was suppose to be it’s death throes. But I fear it it has only strengthened it.

Don't you get it, a Trump figure would only give us more of the swamp, on LSD. The thing you hate is about as good as it gets in human civilisation. There are a few more liberal countries who have done better in their own way. But as for the US, the only direction the country will go with destructive leaders like Trump is downhill like Turkey, or Belarus.

It rained here for the first time since April too

It has barely stopped raining here for two months, I can barely remember what sunshine is like. We do get lots of rainbows though. I've been at the end of one on more than one occasion recently.

The idea that people should expect of their head of state what they do of their spiritual leaders is a silly one. — NOS4A2

Yeah, it's very silly to expect the people in charge of the police, the military and foreign relations to be well informed and reasonable. What's the worst that could happen?

Any paid actor can virtue signal. — NOS4A2

And any paid actor can promise you the moon.

Don't you find it odd that the whole world is celebrating Biden's victory because....

The Associated Press says he won.

I don't doubt they're right, and we're doing the happy dance of joy here too.

Just another reminder of how impatient we Americans are I guess. We just can't wait until the votes have actually been counted.

Anyway, who cares, on with the HAPPY DANCE OF JOY!!

Pretty much the same here in Europe. When the result is certain, it's over. Just be thankful that's after and not before the election like in some parts of the world. :wink:

Just another reminder of how impatient we Americans are I guess. We just can't wait until the votes have actually been counted. — Hippyhead

I'm pretty sure that alot of non-Americans were impatient with the results as well, myself included. The electoral college system, the fact that the mail-in votes were not allowed to be counted in some states (like Pennsylvania) because Republicans made it that way but was in others (like Florida), and the fact that the media chose not to call the race earlier to seemingly get more ratings out of the story infuriated the hell out of me and kept me from sleeping for a week. Hopefully I don't ever have to follow another one of these elections again.

I think Biden's record with race... — NOS4A2

Oh too late.

And especially for those moments when this campaign was at its lowest – the African American community stood up again for me. They always have my back, and I’ll have yours. — Joe Biden

Looks like your idea of a good record with race -- White House support for violent white supremacists; the assault and arrest of peaceful, lawful BLM protesters -- has already been used as toilet paper.

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It was quite something to contrast Biden's eloquent, respectful, humble and optimistic speech with the idiotic cry-baby megalomania of Trump. The hard-working people who counted votes in the midst of a pandemic and under horrific conditions (Trump-supporting fascist scumbags who waved guns and yelled abuse at them) get a massive show of gratitude from Biden but accusations of fraud for counting Biden votes from Trump. "We are not enemies, we are Americans" is the polar opposite of Trump's approach to persecute and demonise anyone who deviates from whatever ridiculous thought just entered his miniscule brain.

It's also quite something to realise that Biden's speech wasn't particularly special; it just feels alien after a mere four years of Trump. Like I said earlier, Trump has lowered the standards for everyone, inculcating a new normal more horrifying than Covid 19: a normal of race hate, compulsive lying, childish retribution, misogyny, self-contradiction to the destruction of any meaning, abject incompetence, thwarted justice, and naked self-interest as a model of the highest level of service. I think the best hope is that, whatever Biden's limitations (including life expectancy), he will at least set a new new normal far above the cesspit that he has inherited, such that the next President, and the one after, and hopefully the one after that, will be anchored to a much less apocalyptic take on the presidency.

That said, the Republican voting trajectory would suggest maybe a brief respite (another GBSr perhaps) followed by something that, right now, seems inconceivable. From Reagan to Bush Jr to Trump... where next? Steve Bannon, maybe, with his Al Qaida-inspired take on government (agree or be beheaded).

Just another reminder of how impatient we Americans are I guess. We just can't wait until the votes have actually been counted. — Hippyhead

Arizona was obviously premature, but when the remaining votes can't support one party, the other has won. That seems reasonable. If it's 100,000 to 80,000 and there are 15,000 votes remaining, you have the same winner no matter what those 15,000 votes say.

Don't you find it odd that the whole world is celebrating Biden's victory — Hippyhead

As Charlie Brooker said, it's like taking a crap after four years of constipation. Politics is international, and when the leader of the most powerful country in the world is a vile, self-serving idiot, it rather thwarts the hopes of concerned world citizens. The Paris agreement being an example, but also just the general wave of white supremacy and fascism (viz. Brexit) that's got the west by the balls at the moment. Hopefully someone like Biden, who is at least saying the right sorts of things about the environment and about equality (which is more than Trump could manage), will be a positive influence worldwide. Maybe not, but it would be nice to see the kind of evil that Trump legitimised and personified recede.

If it's 100,000 to 80,000 and there are 15,000 votes remaining, you have the same winner no matter what those 15,000 votes say. — Kenosha Kid

Ah, I see, was that the case in Pennsylvania? I was following it for awhile but perhaps didn't make it that far.

As Charlie Brooker said, it's like taking a crap after four years of constipation — Kenosha Kid

Ha! Yea, that pretty well nails it.

Come January 20th we can close this thread, yeah? — Maw

Sounds good to me. At that point, all discussion of Trump should end, or if we're going to talk about him after that it should be to investigate why we're still talking about him.

OK.

Likely this thread will go over 500 pages (as there are only 25 to go).

Ah, I see, was that the case in Pennsylvania? I was following it for awhile but perhaps didn't make it that far. — Hippyhead

Not quite. Biden's lead is 41K, the uncounted votes number 68K. The modelling is more sophisticated than that; for instance, the uncounted votes are postal and postal votes overwhelmingly skewed towards Biden (which is why Trump thinks they ought to be illegal); the majority of the uncounted votes are also in blue-leaning counties, etc. My point was just that you don't need to wait until every count is voted to know who won.

Not quite. Biden's lead is 41K, the uncounted votes number 68K. The modelling is more sophisticated than that; for instance, the uncounted votes are postal and postal votes overwhelmingly skewed towards Biden (which is why Trump thinks they ought to be illegal); the majority of the uncounted votes are also in blue-leaning counties, etc. My point was just that you don't need to wait until every count is voted to know who won. — Kenosha Kid

Well yes, one can make various calculations and projections. I get that.

But why be fancy pants about it? Why not just wait until all the votes are counted?

It seems that Biden giving his victory speech before the votes have been counted just feeds in to the conspiracy theories. It's also a tad risky. All the professional pollsters have been wrong two elections in a row now.

Maybe we're all just a tad too found of cleverness?

But why be fancy pants about it? Why not just wait until all the votes are counted? — Hippyhead

On the one hand, some states might be prematurely called on the basis of modelling that might well be excellent, but not 100% certain; on the other hand you can be 100% certain of the winner without waiting for all the votes. You seem to be using the former as an argument against the latter. Even if we had the stringent condition of 100% certainty, we still don't need to wait for every vote, we merely need to wait until one person's lead exceeds the uncounted votes.

That’s not the case because the economy was doing great before it was subverted by worldwide lockdowns. The US is brokering peace in the Middle East. We get massive prison reform. We get deregulation. Turkey and Belarus could not do this. We hit Turkey and Belarus status (and worse; see gun death statistics in Chicago for instance) only in enclaves where democrats have always held power.

Even if we had the stringent condition of 100% certainty, we still don't need to wait for every vote, we merely need to wait until one person's lead exceeds the uncounted votes. — Kenosha Kid

Ok, that makes sense. Is that what happened here?

I still think it would be smarter to simply wait until a deciding state officially announces a winner. Hey, it'll make for a longer party!

I still think it would be smarter to simply wait until a deciding state officially announces a winner. Hey, it'll make for a longer party! — Hippyhead

Agreed, I can't see the purpose in not waiting until it's unambiguous.

It's also quite something to realise that Biden's speech wasn't particularly special; it just feels alien after a mere four years of Trump. Like I said earlier, Trump has lowered the standards for everyone — Kenosha Kid

Not actually.

As you can observe from even this Forum, there's not much genuine excitement for Biden as there was when Obama came into power. Excitement breeds loyal following. Trump's thing was to be outrageous. Not the thing that people who voted for Biden want from Joe. I assume the only thing that his voters will give him slack if he gets more senile in public appearances and speaking, but not on the policy decisions the administration as a whole makes.

[

Not actually.

As you can observe from even this Forum, there's not much genuine excitement for Biden as there was when Obama came into power. Excitement breeds loyal following. Trump's thing was to be outrageous. Not the thing that people who voted for Biden want from Joe. I assume the only thing that his voters will give him slack if he gets more senile in public appearances and speaking, but not on the policy decisions the administration as a whole makes. — ssu

It's difficult to pin down exactly which parts of this are relevant to what you quoted. While there does seem to be plenty of excitement (don't get your news from internet forums), I feel like people are much less excited by the prospect of Biden than by ridding themselves of Trump. Either way, the point of what you quoted had nothing to do with people's feelings about the election; it was a reaction to hearing a president who can speak eloquently, humbly, respectfully, reasonably and positively after four years of hateful verbal diarhhoea, before remembering that actually used to be expected.

It's difficult to pin down exactly which parts of this are relevant to what you quoted. While there does seem to be plenty of excitement (don't get your news from internet forums), I feel like people are much less excited by the prospect of Biden than by ridding themselves of Trump. Either way, the point of what you quoted had nothing to do with people's feelings about the election; it was a reaction to hearing a president who can speak eloquently, humbly, respectfully, reasonably and positively after four years of hateful verbal diarhhoea, before remembering that actually used to be expected. — Kenosha Kid

Half of the country is excited of Trump leaving. That's for sure. But come February 2021, just few months from now, that isn't the focus anymore. Then the fact is that Biden has to pick up from the situation that Trump has left the US.

Before that btw, we'll see an epic lame duck period with the last days of the Trump presidency.

Half of the country is excited of Trump leaving. That's for sure. But come February 2021, just few months from now, that isn't the focus anymore. Then the fact is that Biden has to pick up from the situation that Trump has left the US.

Before that btw, we'll see an epic lame duck period with the last days of the Trump presidency. — ssu

Agreed.

It's also quite something to realise that Biden's speech wasn't particularly special; it just feels alien after a mere four years of Trump. — Kenosha Kid

Ah the simple pleasures of life! They are the most enjoyable: the first sip of a beer on a hot, dry day; a song that catches you when you need it; a kiss on the cheek when you're feeling lonely; a US president's speech that sounds reasonable, and even somewhat presidential, coming after years of verbal torture.... Hmmmmm.... :-)

I wager even you will be longing for a Trump presidency before long — NOS4A2

I have no ability to predict future events, so why would you want to hear me try? — NOS4A2

Hm?
Anyway, seems kind of odd that, out of millions of Americans, lots of cool people, Trump and Biden of all people would be the two candidates.

Ari waxes poetic about what it means:

Robert Mueller chose not to make a prosecutorial decision regarding Trump's Obstruction of Justice. This was based on two things: 1) the DOJ Office of Legal Counsel Memorandum, which opines that a sitting President cannot be indicted. 2) Mueller's sense that it would be unfair to make a judgment that the President cannot defend outside of a courtroom.

Mueller included this quote from the OLC memorandum: "Recognizing an immunity from prosecution for a sitting President would not preclude such prosecution once the President's term is over"

Mueller lays out a case for a potential indictment for Obstruction of Justice, that over 1000 former federal prosecutors signed off on as meeting necessary legal hurdles for an indictment.

Personally, I think it would be good for the country to proceed with the indictment, once he leaves office. By going through this, it will establish once and for all that a President is not above the law.

If prosecuted, I'd like to see Biden pardon him - just to show that this was not the sort of political vendetta that Trump so long desired against Democrats.

Great speech from Biden today, who's already setting up his team to mitigate Covid. Meanwhile Trump announces a press conference in a car park located between a crematorium and a dildo shop so the world can watch Guliani ranting about dead people and a film of someone burning a piece of paper with lighter fuel is beamed around the world's news channels!

It's insane!

Happy Pie

"There's been something quite beautiful about watching Trump's presidency being slowly euthanized by cold hard numbers and irrefutable facts, not so much going out with a bang but an untrustworthy liquid fart."

:fire: :100: :party: