Also recommend “Rethinking Camelot.” — Mikie

I'm reading The Dark Side of Camelot by Sy Hersh. Dishes the dirt. I don't say JFK was a saint. I do say that this country has not been the same since the CIA blew his brains out in broad daylight on behalf of the deep state.

Chomsky is full of shit on the JFK assassination by the way. People have always called him a CIA asset and this is one of the data points in support of that proposition.

I do say that this country has not been the same since the CIA blew his brains out in broad daylight on behalf of the deep state. — fishfry

So you’re with Oliver Stone on this one I guess.

Seems silly to me. I don’t care that much, to be honest— could be true. What actually changed my mind was NOVA’s assessment:



Worth watching. They dismantle a lot of misinformation.

Chomsky is full of shit on the JFK assassination by the way. — fishfry

Does he say much about it? I recall him focusing more on Vietnam and Cuba.

Anyway…Your credibility continues to wane. First repeating conservative talking points, then echoing Oliver Stone conspiracy theories, now claiming Noam Chomsky is a “CIA asset.” Oof..

@Wayfarer I can address the specifics of your post now.

The subpoena to Garland was pure theatre and retribution, no basis in law or fact. We can expect many more frivolous and baseless lawsuits from Trump’s minions in Congress none with any basis in law or fact, but solely driven by spite and the desire to settle scores. — Wayfarer

I understand! When the Democrats impeach Trump twice, the first time over something that Biden provably did (extort Ukraine to fire the Burisma prosecutor), it's the virtuous application of the law to all men without fear or favor. And when the Republicans use the law to hold the Democrats accountable for anything, those are "frivolous and baseless lawsuits from Trump’s minions in Congress none with any basis in law or fact, but solely driven by spite and the desire to settle scores."

It's all so simple now! Why didn't I see that before?

Ashli Babbitt was shot by law enforcement trying to force entry into a restricted area. If she hadn’t have been taking those actions, she wouldn’t have been shot. — Wayfarer

Were you that magnanimous to law enforcement when George Floyd died of a fentanyl overdose with a cop's knee on his upper back, in conformance with police department policy? Or in the Ahmaud Arbery case, where a known neighborhood burglar resisted a lawful citizen's arrest and the citizens were not even going to be charged until the mob howled?

You like lynch mobs?

Not true. There were intruders holding signs saying that the Vice President should be hung — Wayfarer

As long as they spare the fly.

and expressing the intent to find and murder the speaker of the house. — Wayfarer

Pelosi? The line was probably around the block.

How many did such things out of the total present in Washington that day? Out of how many still held in jail, in solitary confinement under inhumane conditions, like one of Stalin's gulags?

You condone that?

They desecrated the House — Wayfarer

Pelosi did that herself when she ripped up the SOTU speech, among other things. Not to mention her flagrant insider trading, which you or I would go to prison for.

and destroyed private and government property and confidential records. — Wayfarer

Floyd riots: 19 dead, over a billion dollars in insurance payouts for property damage, at least one police station burnt to the ground, other police stations set on fire with cops inside, government buildings attacked, two law students given slaps on the wrist for tossing Molotov cocktails into cop cars, vibrant commercial sectors burnt to the ground that will take years to rebuild.

Did you spend the summer of 2020 cheering that on?

The difference with Holder is that Eric Holder was asked to testify and provide documents for a period of time in which he actually was part of the executive branch. In fact he did provide many documents and he claimed executive privilege for others. The court agreed but also required Holder to turn over non-privileged documents. — Wayfarer

He refused, and was held in contempt of Congress. Was that the proper authority of Congress, or was that more "frivolous and baseless lawsuits from Trump’s minions in Congress none with any basis in law or fact, but solely driven by spite and the desire to settle scores."

How silly of me to even ask.

Steve Bannon was being requested to testify and provide document for a period of time in which he was not part of the executive branch. Bannon turned over nothing and refused to testify. It is fundamentally different than Eric Holder’s case. — Wayfarer

That's the fair and even-handed of the law, which no one is above. Say, I think I'm getting the hang of this game!

That trial is pending. — Wayfarer

Many voters of all political persuasions and demographics see that illegitimate lawfare is all you've got, since you can't make a case for your guy.

And ... if I may be so bold as to ask ... what exactly is the case for your guy? In syllables that don't rhyme with Orange. "Vote for the burnt out husk, he's not Trump."

Catchy.

So you’re with Oliver Stone on this one I guess. — Mikie

I think the circumstantial case against the CIA is stronger than the circumstantial case against Oswald. There's no proof either way. Oswald never could have been convicted in a fair courtroom. Stone mostly focusses on the Garrison case, which I haven't studied.

Did you know there's a straight line from Bill Clinton to the JFK assassination? It goes through the airport in Mena, Arkansas, which was a hub of drug and gun running while Clinton was governor. One of the pilots was the famous drug smuggler and CIA asset Barry Seal, who used to be a member of the Civil Air Patrol and knew Oswald and David Ferrie, the guy played by Joe Pesci. Theres a pretty good film called American Made starring Tom Cruise as Seal.

Shortly after the JFK assassination, three men in suits got on an airplane at a local airport, told the controller they were flying north, then flew north a ways and turned back south. Some think the pilot was either Seal or Ferrie. That's all speculation though. Once the cops announced the arrest of Oswald, the controller didn't bother to follow up the flight plan anomaly.

Seems silly to me. I don’t care that much, to be honest— could be true. What actually changed my mind was NOVA’s assessment:

Worth watching. They dismantle a lot of misinformation. — Mikie

If they give even the slightest credence to the single bullet theory, they're full of baloney. One, there is no chain of custody linking the bullet supposedly found at Parkland to the bullet currently stored at the National Archives as CE-399. Two, even if it was the same bullet, there were more grains of led in Connally's body that are missing from the bullet. Three, Dr. Pierre Finck, one of the autopsy surgeons, testified at the Clay Shaw trial (Garrison case) that he was ordered by a high ranking military official to not dissect the back and throat wounds. Meaning that the government deliberately made sure nobody could ever know if the same bullet caused both wounds. And four, Governor Connally swore to the day he died that he was not hit by the magic bullet, and his wife Nellie, who'd been sitting behind him in the presidential limo, agreed.

I will check out the video, thanks.

In Biden's America "nobody is above the law."

Good god— is this really what braindead right wingers find funny?

The crackhead jab was the only one not reliant on a stupid, nonexistent premise (crime is actually down) or Fox News bromide.

Reminds me of these polls where conservatives say the stock market is way down when it’s at record highs. Just living a fact-free existence. What can you do? Let stupid be stupid I guess.

I found it entertaining.

(crime is actually down)

The difference between us is that you just trust stats at face value and leave it at that. Crime data in the US has been manipulated for years for political gain. It's an open secret. I walk into stores and see items locked up due to pervasive shoplifting. I don't recall it being like this a decade or two ago. But that's surely paranoia, right? Crime is lower than ever! :roll:

I've also worked in government so I'm familiar with the drivel. Gotta report something.

Crime data in the US has been manipulated for years for political gain. It's an open secret. I walk into stores and see items locked up due to pervasive shoplifting. — BitconnectCarlos

Oh I see— so the stats can’t be trusted, but your anecdotes should be.

Funny — I walk into stores and almost nothing is locked up. Nothing that hasn’t been locked up since the 1990s anyway.

I don't recall it being like this a decade or two ago. But that's surely paranoia, right? — BitconnectCarlos

Yeah, basically. Because shoplifting really hasn’t increased much nationally. But Fox News runs stories every night, so I can see how your brain would be effected that way.

Violent crime has declined nationally since jumping in 2020, but trends in retail theft are more difficult to assess, in part because of varying data collection and theft reporting methods. That said, the available crime data and industry figures cut against claims of a national increase in retail theft, despite notable spikes in some cities.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/myth-vs-reality-trends-retail-theft

Oh wait — no stats matter, only vibes and anecdotes do. Let’s go with those I guess. In which case: stock market at all time low! America is being overrun by immigrants! Etc.

:yawn:

This and climate change. Those two issues are so easy and so obvious that a child can understand them, and yet individuals who would otherwise fool you into believing they’re sharp thinkers simply cannot grasp them. — Mikie

Only one side in the American political scene is openly declaring the intention to suspend the Constitution, and running solely on the basis of vindictiveness and spite. Why this is not an outrage to any sane person is beyond me. As promised I will donate US$10.00 on the basis of losing the argument that Trump won’t be the Republican nominee. That charity will be Liz Cheney’s PAC. And bye for now.

Gump's "stupid is as stupid does" has devolved into Trump's Morons Against Great America. :mask:

Crime data in the US has been manipulated for years for political gain. — BitconnectCarlos

To the extent this might be true it is not something that one party does and the other eschews. In the case of Trump data does not matter.

There's been a large gap in crime stats since 2021. Apparently in NYC the police won't even file a crime report for anything short of murder. Many precincts no longer report crime stats.

And would it even matter to you if groups like Hezbollah and MS-13 poured across our border? You don't even like the US. So what if it's enemies come in? Or the massive amount of sex trafficking that Biden's policies allow?

Apparently in NYC the police won't even file a crime report for anything short of murder. — BitconnectCarlos

I already said: just go with your feelings and vibes and anecdotes.

You don't even like the US. — BitconnectCarlos

:lol:

I already said: just go with your feelings and vibes and anecdotes. — Mikie

Because you totally know that the NYPD reporting procedures unlike those idiots (including the police themselves) who bring up this point.

You don't even like the US. — BitconnectCarlos

I'm serious. If you want to see the US fail then your policies and perspectives are perfectly valid. If so just lmk so I'll let it be.

Because you totally know that the NYPD reporting procedures unlike those idiots (including the police themselves) who bring up this point. — BitconnectCarlos

No, nor do I care. I never once mentioned New York— not that it matters, since your feelings triumph because you see lots of stuff being under glass. So crime must be rising.

I'm serious. — BitconnectCarlos

Oh I know. Which is why it’s so hilarious.

since your feelings triumph because you see lots of stuff being glass. — Mikie

Ah, yes. How could I have overlooked that? Point taken. Thank you, interlocutor. :chin:

Oh I know. Which is why it’s so hilarious. — Mikie

Do you or do you not want to see America fall?

Do you or do you not want to see America fall? — BitconnectCarlos

:rofl:

.

Something about the Jan 6 2021 attack I'm wondering about.
What could possibly happen after the storming of the buildings?
It wasn't a swift hit-and-run type attack.

Would the mob occupy them?
I don't think that could block Congress from moving ahead later, or stop much of anything really.

Hold hostages?
From memory, most of those who worked there left or got out before the attackers took over, e.g. Pence was (predictably) ushered away by the Secret Service; there wasn't anyone stopping people from leaving (or attacking them) that I recall.

Maybe they expected that a fair portion of the US population would join in...?
Including in law enforcement and military?
That's the only way they could succeed as far as I can tell, however remote that seems.

I suppose the attack could just give an impression of a weaker, fragile state of the US government, which might be enough for some.

Attacking those buildings doesn't really come through as much of a coup d'état attempt by itself, but I might definitely be missing something.
More like a party gone haywire, though I'm sure there were some serious extremists and dedicated instigators in the mob; what about domestic terrorists or Iranian agents?
Might be more interesting to back-track what participants/organizers did, whether they got together beforehand, where (or from who) their ideas originated or otherwise were reinforced, what their motivations were, ...
I'm thinking it wasn't just the Clown that put ideas in their heads, but I'm speculating.
Further motive (who might benefit in some way), means, opportunity (nudging rioters — and shamans), ...

This is a story about the folks who lived around Trump's Scottish golf course. I wonder, since it is distant from the party politics, if folks might be more open to seeing the rights and wrongs of it? If you can access it that is.

Without knowing all the parts, Occam would concentrate on the motivation to stop the certification of the election. The different elements set in motion, the fake elector scheme, putting pressure on the VP, Congress critters ready to seize opportunities, mobs upsetting all involved, etcetera. It is not a plan in the style of Napoleon or Lenin.

Hunter Biden was just convicted of the stupidest crimes, felony gun charges, while his documented drug use, prostitution, tax evasion, FARA violations and money laundering go untouched. While anyone else would be in prison for any number of these, Biden privilege allowed him to skate and run amok to commit a crime spree for years. It was only after his crimes could no longer be hidden, connecting them to his father, that they sacrificed him.

One good thing that came of the trial is that they used his infamous laptop as evidence, proving once and for all that the media, the deep state, and the useful idiots that peddle the disinfo that the laptop was Russian disinformation, are proven to be stupid, malicious, or both.

Here’s a nice reminder of how they string along their cult:

Maybe Trump and Hunter can be cellmates. :flower:

:lol:

I wonder who'd get to pick up the soap.

Here's me laughing hard about the right that thinks the Department of Justice is a political toy that the left uses whenever they feel like it.

I mean, just look at what happened to Hunter Biden.

Was a Trump judge. Whole thing was rigged. It was a perfect gun application.

Recall last year as IRS whistleblowers testified that the younger, deadbeat Biden, had over $300000 in unpaid taxes. They claimed the DOJ felony investigation was slow-walked for four years so that it went past the statute of limitations. (Investigating it would probably implicate Joe).

At any rate, Hunter later plead guilty to a misdemeanor tax charge, netting himself a sweetheart plea deal with the DOJ that essentially absolved him from the gun charges he was just convicted of. A judge later questioned the constitutionality of the deal.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/26/proposed-hunter-biden-plea-agreement-00108426

Imagine if it was anyone else. But this is the politics of optics. The optics of the preferential treatment just became too much for the Justice department. With whistleblowers coming out of the woodwork, a mounting criticism of a two-tiered justice system, and the corruption of the elder Biden becoming more apparent, there wasn’t any hiding it any more. So, for electioneering purposes and to divert from Joe’s crimes, they sacrificed Hunter on the alter of politics, and Joe’s dutiful followers can pretend the justice system is no longer two-tiered.

Watching the Trump cultists wiggle and squirm is amazing. :rofl:

It’s a disgrace that Trump was welcomed back to Congress by his Republican lickspittles and toadies. They so easily forget how they were all cowering in basements and feared for their lives when his thugs stormed and ransacked the same building less than three years ago.