Then you may claim that appropriating, say, mineral resources somehow "disrespects" the Earth or whatever, but it doesn't follow that it constitutes theft, in which case you've simply changed the subject. Furthermore, this would require defending the rather tendentious claim that, for instance, the Earth is something deserving of respect and having rights "in and of itself." The Earth is an accretion of rock and metals, with a thin scum of gravitationally-bound gases, with some trace amounts of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, sulfur, oxygen, and phosphorus, some agglomerations of which believe themselves to be the center of the universe.In the social context theft can only occur when someone else's property is stolen but in theory if something isn't someone else's then it isn't technically theft. However the problem with this is that it is only in the legal context of things as doesn't account for the issue of "thing in and of itself" having rights (property or otherwise) which need to be respected. — dclements
Vertical axis is the use of the term American Dream in writing. — René Descartes
I think this is close to how capitalism functions, but not quite. My point of view is that capitalism works by outsourcing exploitation, just like life works by decreasing its own internal entropy by increasing the entropy of its environment (by more than it decreases its own). So for capitalism to work, there must be an "out there" that we don't care about - the Chinese, the Africans, etc. - let them produce everything for us cheaply, we don't care how they live so long as we have what we need back home.I think the morality of capitalism depends on there being a frontier. As long as there are untapped resources out there, the accumulation of property cannot be said to be depriving anyone. We all slave on Jamalrob's estate here, but if anyone feels unhappy, they are free to carve out their own philosophical homestead further down the internet highway. — unenlightened
Skyscrapers? :P On the same surface area of Earth live more and more people. We're not yet at the point where we have a land shortage, though in certain parts of the world, this is becoming a problem.But there is no land left to clear; no free space to invest my labour in and grow my food and my capital. The landless peasant is doomed to remain forever landless, because all the land is already owned. And at this stage it becomes apparent and significant that to own property is to deprive others of its use. — unenlightened
My point of view is that capitalism works by outsourcing exploitation, just like life works by decreasing its own internal entropy by increasing the entropy of its environment (by more than it decreases its own). So for capitalism to work, there must be an "out there" that we don't care about - the Chinese, the Africans, etc. - let them produce everything for us cheaply, we don't care how they live so long as we have what we need back home. — Agustino
On the same surface area of Earth live more and more people. We're not yet at the point where we have a land shortage, though in certain parts of the world, this is becoming a problem. — Agustino
No, I'm describing the capitalist system as a whole. There are industries which are less affected by this, but overall, even those industries will ultimately rely on those industries that require exploitation in order to be possible (at the scale that they are possible). And look, even relatively lean internet businesses, like Amazon FBA stores, outsource like crazy - customer service is outsourced, production is outsourced, shipping is outsourced - the entrepreneur ends up not doing very much of the actual work except providing the capital, supervising, sales & marketing and making sure that all the parties are working together smoothly.You're just describing a particular type of industry and type of capitalist where production requires little skill and the owner is trying to maximize his own profits at the expense of his employees being provided very little. — Hanover
When production and money is the only criteria, then someone's value is always tied to their productive capacity. That is wrong from a moral point of view. If one's wife, for example, doesn't work, do you reckon they should consider her a useless piece of trash because she's not "productive"?In a capitalist system, the worker is a commodity, so the greater his skills and talents, the better he will be treated, which is why you should stay in school, be hardworking, and make yourself valuable. — Hanover
Oh dear... hopefully you don't become an @apokrisis version 2.0. :joke:But perhaps that might be worth a thread of its own, Ecosophy is a bit neglected round here. — unenlightened
You've never seen such an example.Under communism, it's not. Communism was a horrifying system. — Agustino
Yes, I am aware that this thread is discussing the morality of capitalism. I do not think that capitalism is more immoral than the alternatives that have been tried so far, let's put it that way. I don't think capitalism is perfect. It's definitely not, and I am very much opposed to consumerism and pretty much the whole modern culture (Hollywood, etc.).You've never seen such an example.
Capiitalism is global. You forget the all the starving under $1 a day people also live under the yoke of capitalism. Given a random placement the likely hood is that you would be one of those living under a $1 per day.
Maybe you should take your head out of your bum once in a whilst and try to see the bigger picture?
The other thing you might like to consider is the thread subject.
The morality of it , not whether or not you happen to live in a country where you benefit from Capitalism's immorality! — charleton
This works on some computers and not on others. It always works on my home computer, which is Firefox on Mint Linux, but only works intermittently on my work computer which is Internet Explorer on Windows 10.I just noticed you were talking to me. If you select text from a post, a quote button will appear. Push the quote button. — frank
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