• DingoJones
    2.9k
    The thing is this is the exact kind of questioning front and centre in mainstream academia.I like sushi

    Huh? The immorality of homosexuality? Where're you from?
  • I like sushi
    5.3k
    He made an attempt to define his understanding of what 'morality' meant to him and said that within those contexts.

    Questions about the use and meaning of terms like 'race' and 'homosexuality' are very much front and centre in western academia.

    He framed his understaanding of 'morality' his way. I questioned that and hoped to point him towards a better way to frame his words. That will not happen now.
  • DingoJones
    2.9k
    I understand, it just doesnt seem like he was talking about the use and meaning of homosexuality to me. It seemed pretty clear he was concerned about the morality of homosexuality.
    To your point about “not happening now” I think its always better to have the discussion but Im assuming that was done? Jamal said he was warned. Im sure somebody tried to explain how wrong he was at some point to no avail given his last post.
  • I like sushi
    5.3k
    Assuming he is 'wrong' is anti-philosophical.

    Maybe people had tried to point out the inconsistent use of terminology? I have no idea. If it is the case that he was just repeatedly pushing the same position over and over without engaging with the criticism laid at his feet, then fair enough.

    The post as it was laid out was homophobic because people view it as homophobic. For race he was questioning the its use as a 'social construct' as opposed to essentialist claims.

    Would I be allowed to start a thread questioning the validity of the uses of terms like 'homosexual' or 'race'. These are all relevant in terms of how we communicate and sort through the messiness of language. I do not see the point in gagging people on the basis of hate speech.

    Let racists speak out. Let homophobes speak out. There are certainly areas where someo would label one person as 'racist' where others would not, as there are areas where people are labeled as 'homophobic' by some when others would not.

    The necessary messiness of communication means we should do more of it with an intent to disagree in some areas and agree in others. Trying to understand why people hold the views they hold allows us to better understand why we hold the views we do, and perhaps question the reasoning and reinforce or rethink our approach.

    All that said, this is a private enterprise though. Anyone can be banned for any reason the owner sees fit. It matters not if we agree or disagree with them that much.

    My criticism can be considered or not. I am pretty sure the owner appreciates being questioned if they set up a philosophy forum.
  • DingoJones
    2.9k
    Assuming he is 'wrong' is anti-philosophical.I like sushi

    I i didnt assume, I just read what he said. Evidently we had very different takes on that. Alas, Bob is no longer with us to clarify.
  • Moliere
    6.4k
    If it is the case that he was just repeatedly pushing the same position over and over without engaging with the criticism laid at his feet, then fair enough.I like sushi

    Basically yes. On this particular topic, no less. I don't really like it, but Bob kept skirting around the guidelines with respect to racist and homophobic viewpoints. It was also explained to him in his more recent thread why : https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/1031074

    I know I've quoted this before, but it's worth reading the relevant part of the guidelines carefully:

    Racists, homophobes, sexists, Nazi sympathisers, etc.: We don't consider your views worthy of debate, and you'll be banned for espousing them.
    — Baden

    This is not rhetoric. It reflects a substantive judgment about what does and does not count as a legitimate object of philosophical debate.

    Every intellectual community draws boundaries around admissible positions. Refusing to treat certain views as worthy of debate is the baseline judgment that makes good philosophical debate possible.

    TPF is not a platform for discredited intellectual frameworks, particularly those belonging to a long line of justifications for racial discrimination. Views which presuppose racial essentialism, whether framed biologically, metaphysically, or in thought experiments, fall well within the category of those positions we do not consider worthy of debate.
    — Jamal

    And the most recent post, now deleted, was basically this but towards homosexuals, a topic previously discussed between he and I where we told him "This topic is not worthy of debate here".

    So he has been warned multiple times on the similar theme of putting forward views that are not considered worthy of debate, being told directly that this is not how we do things here, and he went ahead and posted anyway.

    I like Bob, and don't really relish losing him. But this was done as gradually as possible, as I tend to like to do, and here we are.
  • Punshhh
    3.4k
    Was he asking to be banned, in a round about way? That’s what I thought. Otherwise he was pushing, or testing the boundaries repeatedly while saying I might be banned for this.
  • frank
    18.5k
    He was going to be doing sexism and anti-Semitism next. He thought he was being tricky.
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